Live/stream

[Tucsky]

Is it something that could be done the peertube way, in the future ?

[Chocobozzz]

Not really sure, torrents are immutable. In our roadmap: https://joinpeertube.org/roadmap

[Wack0]

Well, today there is acestream, which is basically "livestream but with torrents"; the initial seeder has to stay seeding throughout as they are the one providing the stream. I wonder if something similar can be done with webtorrent..?

Acestream seems to be closed source (which is odd, given that they seem to have forked vlc); but I guess it's proof enough that it is in fact possible.

[voronoipotato]

nile.js presently does this on top of webtorrent by basically uploading slices of video that point to the next upcoming slice.

[aledomu]

Maybe this can be used as an inspiration: https://github.com/muaz-khan/WebRTC-Scalable-Broadcast

[SoniEx2]

There is also dat, which provides encrypted append-only streams.

[voronoipotato]

https://snr.stanford.edu/salsify/

A new thing

[rigelk]

@voronoipotato very interesting! It doesn't cover the topic of live streaming, however.

Technically, it may not be so easy. It would be a lot simpler if Salsify were just a better video codec, or a better transport protocol. Because Salsify is instead a better way of putting the pieces together, we expect it will be harder to retrofit into an existing application without significant refactoring. In our conversations with industry, we’ve found that the burden of proof will be high to demonstrate (1) that Salsify’s gains are real, and (2) that they can’t be achieved with less-intrusive surgery to existing applications.

Even they admit the integration burden is difficult. We already have a hard time switching codecs and have a tight coupling with webtorrent, so I don't expect a refactoring to salsify to happen.

[voronoipotato]

no, I didn't it was likely either I just saw it and thought it would be fun to share lol.

[rodneyrod]

Tribler looks to be doing something along these lines:
https://www.tribler.org/StreamingExperiment/

[rigelk]

I just noticed that the hls.js lib also features a POC branch called hlstorrent. The maintainer (of that branch) even made some comments about it on SO, so it's working beyond the POC branch apparently.

EDIT: looks pretty hackish though.

[fredsif]

There's also this project:
https://github.com/cdnbye/hlsjs-p2p-engine
Haven't tried it yet but it seems in active development

[rigelk]

@fredsif interesting but it's apparently not fully open source (their tracker isn't).

[tcitworld]

cdnbye/hlsjs-p2p-engine#8 (comment)
😞

[fredsif]

There seems to be another new project (also based on webtorrent) that delivers live streaming:
https://github.com/Novage/p2p-media-loader

[rigelk]

@fredsif that's a very good find! It is technically very close to our current stack, as it uses webtorrent/bittorrent-tracker. It also has the advantage to support both HLS and DASH, so that lets us choose. Oh and they provide explicit support for videojs-contrib-hls (although now https://github.com/videojs/http-streaming sounds like the future of hls/dash/other in videojs).

cc @Chocobozzz

[HenriJD]

Will this be added on your Roadmap for 2019?
@Chocobozzz @rigelk

[rigelk]

@SarHawk p2p-media-loader and hls support are being brought in a refactor happening right now. It won't bring live streaming, but it will bring better playback support and it is the first step towards live streaming support anyway.

[sschueller]

There is also some information here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13378145 regarding BitTorrent Live which was not open source but some of its parts have been made open source now.

[Serkan-devel]

Maybe someonce could create a BEP with a livestreaming spec if that doesn't exist yet

[draconicfae]

RFC 7574 maybe?

[warnerbryce]

I stream on Twitch with a 30sec latency between "what i say" and "the live".
So it's not a big deal that the P2P LiveStream on PeerTube will have a 30 to 60s delay.
And with time, this feature can't get worse, maybe tchat will come and delay may be reduced.

[rjperry611]

Have you guys checked out https://www.thetatoken.org/ ?
They have already figured out the p2p streaming tech. Samsung has already integrated them into their smart TVs, VR, and smart phones.

[kinghat]

Have you guys checked out https://www.thetatoken.org/ ?
They have already figured out the p2p streaming tech. Samsung has already integrated them into their smart TVs, VR, and smart phones.

i dont think you need a token or blockchain to do p2p live streaming 🤔

[tytan652]

• The use of SRT to send the stream to a peertube server may be an idea.
• Then the peertube server "real-time transcodes" the stream to HLS H264.
• But the server will have to transcode the stream into multiple resolutions except if we deliver just one when streaming.
• And the viewer sees the live with HLS and seeds it through p2p-media-loader.

Note: OBS support SRT since version 25, see wiki

[6543]

whats the current state?

[ghost]

whats the current state?

https://joinpeertube.org/roadmap

[trymeouteh]

https://joinpeertube.org/roadmap

There is not going to be a live chat feature for live streaming? It says in the roadmap
No chat, no gifs, no ❤️ 👍

[warnerbryce]

https://joinpeertube.org/roadmap

There is not going to be a live chat feature for live streaming? It says in the roadmap
No chat, no gifs, no ❤️ 👍

Yes for the beginning. If you know how to code a tchat start helping.

[6543]

just thoughts: does activpub support something like that?

[lenod]

just thoughts: does activpub support something like that?

I reckon it is not adapted to live chat. But one shouldn't reimplement yet another live chat system. Xmpp does this just right, and there are already stable JavaScript clients (see JSXC or converse.js)

[voronoipotato]

Just add a little matrix iframe bob's your uncle

[poperigby]

Matrix would be a great idea.

[lenod]

That would mean relying on a third-party server or adding a matrix server as a dependency, which is pretty heavyweight.
Irc would also work by the way, and both IRC and XMPP can then be connected to a matrix channel if you need to, AFAIK.

[afranke]

There is work to have P2P Matrix, with some bits already running. https://matrix.org/blog/2020/06/02/introducing-p-2-p-matrix

[Chocobozzz]

Please create a separate issue to discuss about a chat feature for live videos

[trymeouteh]

Please create a separate issue to discuss about a chat feature for live videos

#3098

[Agorise]

https://joinpeertube.org/roadmap

There is not going to be a live chat feature for live streaming? It says in the roadmap
No chat, no gifs, no ❤️ 👍

For live chat on live stream videos, i hope they use the foss, e2ee Matrix protocol for that. (matrix.org)

[Alterak]

There is not going to be a live chat feature for live streaming? It says in the roadmap
No chat, no gifs, no ❤️ 👍

It says that there will be no chat at the first stage-).

[draconicfae]

(Professor Farnsworth voice) : "Good news everyone!" : https://bits.debian.org/2020/10/debian-donation-peertube.html (relevant to this issue because it's specifically about this issue) :)

[martindale]

This is the killer feature for me — excited to see progress towards P2P livestreams!

[Mikaela]

Do the current plans include having live-only streams as in not storing them on any instance once they are over, or is that currently going to be the only way they will be until storing is implemented? Yes, #3250 (comment).

How about having an option to watch through the recording by the streamer before deciding whether to publish them? To this I didn't see a clear answer yet.

[Chocobozzz]

Implemented in #3250. You can see the details of the implementation/UX in the PR description.

This is just a first step, we'll improve the live feature next year.