Documentation on ODF Structure For Grand Orgue ?

[larspalo]

Originally posted 2019-01-15 06:45:50.457000 by cinemapete in GrandOrgue discussion forum on SourceForge

Is there any documentation available that defines the structure and what is required for a ODF file when used with Grand Orgue ? (Please note that I'm already aware of Vincent Forman's Organ Builder program but it doesn't provide ODF documentation.) Thanks in advance.

[larspalo]

Originally posted 2019-01-15 13:20:33.939000 by tbpr in GrandOrgue discussion forum on SourceForge

The GO help file details the ODF.

For examples, look at the demo organ. It provides many advanced features of GO.

[larspalo]

Originally posted 2019-01-15 14:30:54.267000 by cinemapete in GrandOrgue discussion forum on SourceForge

Thanks Thomas, I don't know how I missed it !

I will review/study/compare and may have additional questions...

Thanks again.

On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 8:20 AM Thomas Beck <tbpr@users.sourceforge.net>
wrote:

> The GO help file details the ODF.
>
> For examples, look at the demo organ. It provides many advanced features
> of GO.
> ------------------------------
>
> Documentation on ODF Structure For Grand Orgue ?
> <https://sourceforge.net/p/ourorgan/discussion/962124/thread/ef4b0f89c5/?limit=25#841c>
> ------------------------------
>
> Sent from sourceforge.net because you indicated interest in
> https://sourceforge.net/p/ourorgan/discussion/962124/
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[larspalo]

Originally posted 2019-01-15 20:14:40.783000 by tweedledee in GrandOrgue discussion forum on SourceForge

That is precisely how I've started learning (just a few days). I first tried looking over the Green Positiv but found it too complicated. The demo organ, however, is very well organized and easy to understand.

[larspalo]

Originally posted 2019-01-15 20:59:30.824000 by cinemapete in GrandOrgue discussion forum on SourceForge

Well, I will diligently review/study the demo organ and learn what I can. I expect I will have questions that the info in Help doesn't address in which case I will be asking here.

[larspalo]

Originally posted 2019-03-26 21:04:55.603000 by japrenticeuk in GrandOrgue discussion forum on SourceForge

Apologies as this feels like a very dumb question.

I have installed GO v0.3.1.2313 and can find and use the .orgue file for the demo - mine is called demo-4232D4C616E4B99145537F02B34D342D4E3E3808.orgue in the packages folder.

I want to understand the format for writing a .organ file as suggested above. How does one look at the text ODF for the Demo (i.e. the .organ file) - I cannot find one on my harddrives?

TIA

John

[larspalo]

Originally posted 2019-03-26 22:09:05.776000 by Martin Koegler in GrandOrgue discussion forum on SourceForge

ODF & organ package (*.orgue) reference is part of the GO help.

[larspalo]

Originally posted 2019-03-26 22:44:15.920000 by japrenticeuk in GrandOrgue discussion forum on SourceForge

Thanks - I have looked at Help but not all the values I see in organs like the Green or Caen.organ are described there and Thomas Beck suggests, above, to look at the Demo as a well-structured example that will help understanding. It's just that I cannot find a demo.organ file.

Best wishes - John

[larspalo]

Originally posted 2019-03-27 07:55:55.357000 by Martin Koegler in GrandOrgue discussion forum on SourceForge

In my option, the GO help should be complete - missing options are a bug. Please make sure, that GO does not flag them as invalid during loading (GO even have a strict ODF mode reporting more issues during loading).
Some options are only present, if specific conditions are met. Describing such things complicates the ODF reference with such references - if you don't find multiple, different options in a section in the ODF reference, please check, that you don't missed a such a reference in the ODF reference.

Please post any really missing options.

[larspalo]

Originally posted 2019-03-27 10:47:14.289000 by japrenticeuk in GrandOrgue discussion forum on SourceForge

Martin - thank you.

Your confidence in the completeness of Help and finding the text of the .organ file (see above) has spurred me to success. I had been discouraged by a note somewhere on the Web that the Help was lagging behind the software development. Knowing this to be untrue made me read more carefully.

A hint for others - which is obvious now but did not click until I had read the example - is that the objects defined in Help have an inheritance structure. Thus Switches inherit from Drawstops and Drawstops inherit from Buttons.

I might have got it quicker if the text in Drawstop Objects had read "Drawstop objects are Button objects with toggle functions" rather than "Drawstop objects are buttons with..." Probably very obvious to developers knowing the code but not understanding the inheritance was what made me think there are missing descriptions in, e.g., Drawstop objects.

Thanks again - time to try to put my understanding to use.

[larspalo]

Originally posted 2019-03-27 21:34:23.828000 by Martin Koegler in GrandOrgue discussion forum on SourceForge

Other part of the help are needing improvements.

We are an open source project, so you can start improving it:
https://sourceforge.net/p/ourorgan/svn/HEAD/tree/trunk/help/grandorgue.xml

[larspalo]

Originally posted 2019-03-27 07:41:53.270000 by Martin Koegler in GrandOrgue discussion forum on SourceForge

The sample source of our demo set is Lars Palo - multiple people contributed to it (look at magle.dk thread).

There is no encryption - the whole format is documented in our help.

[larspalo]

Originally posted 2019-03-29 01:23:32.763000 by cinemapete in GrandOrgue discussion forum on SourceForge

Hello Martin:

I think it might be easier if we could communicate off-line?

Feel free to email me at cinempete@gmail.com

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Peter

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 3:24 PM Martin Koegler <
e9925248@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> I'm well aware of the limitations of ODF reference.
>
> Most of the ODF reference has been written by me: The GO format started
> from the HW1 format (HW1 is still loadable with some warnings as GO ODF).
> GO gained lots of new options - without listing them, nobody would even
> know about them. Plus some short text, so that I don't have to dive into
> the GO code to answer questions.
>
> In regards to ODF guides, other people have started always started filling
> that gap creating beginner content (in forums or on their homepages).
>
> In regared to your question:
> The reference does not state, that a specifc order of sections or options
> in a section is required. So you are free to order them, as you like.
>
> What kind of combinations do you mean? Generals? Divisionals? Or
> Setter/GUI elemets referring to elements from the additonal panels?
> ------------------------------
>
> Documentation on ODF Structure For Grand Orgue ?
> <https://sourceforge.net/p/ourorgan/discussion/962124/thread/ef4b0f89c5/?limit=25#d183/fd80/de31/605a/b601/c8d7/cf9a>
> ------------------------------
>
> Sent from sourceforge.net because you indicated interest in
> https://sourceforge.net/p/ourorgan/discussion/962124/
>
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[larspalo]

Originally posted 2021-03-20 10:14:55.302000 by barbajason in GrandOrgue discussion forum on SourceForge

I have written a paper on the ODF architecture. The aim is for me to understand, but maybe it could be beneficial for others.

[larspalo]

Originally posted 2021-03-20 13:26:32.568000 by cinemapete in GrandOrgue discussion forum on SourceForge

Hello Jens, is your paper available for download and review ?

Thank you.

On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 6:14 AM Jens Andersson <
barbajason@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> I have written a paper on the ODF architecture. The aim is for me to
> understand, but maybe it could be beneficial for others.
> ------------------------------
>
> Documentation on ODF Structure For Grand Orgue ?
> <https://sourceforge.net/p/ourorgan/discussion/962124/thread/ef4b0f89c5/?limit=25#d183/fd80/de31/605a/b601/c8d7/cf9a/3fac>
> ------------------------------
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[larspalo]

Originally posted 2021-03-20 16:17:31.565000 by barbajason in GrandOrgue discussion forum on SourceForge

Send me your mail address and I will return your mail with a draft of the paper attached.

[larspalo]

Originally posted 2021-03-21 09:08:39.894000 by barbajason in GrandOrgue discussion forum on SourceForge

For some reason I cannot reply to mails addressed to @users.sourceforge.net ...

[larspalo]

Originally posted 2019-03-29 19:06:14.957000 by Martin Koegler in GrandOrgue discussion forum on SourceForge

In general, I prefer public forums/mailing lists for GO project communication.

Many things show up over and over again - this allows other to lookup old communication, contribute to topics and also allows to refer to previous answers instead of repeating the same thing over and over again.

PS: While I think, that communication should stay polite, listing real deficits of a tool/documentaion is not something, that you have to execuse for. I agree, that the GO help is incomplete with some outdated parts and the ODF reference is not suitable for beginners.

[larspalo]

Originally posted 2021-03-20 23:36:00.503000 by Mark Bugeja in GrandOrgue discussion forum on SourceForge

As has been mentioned and I think I have stated it in the past, years ago, is that the documentation lacks concrete, practical examples. Syntax is code which many do not understand. Unless an example is given, they are largely meaningless to people like me. I have learnt to create sample-sets the hard way and after a spell away from the job, I'm sure, as I have already experienced, I will encounter problems again when I attempt to create another set. I repeatedly have to rely on others to explain why something does not work as expected or how to do things. Difficulties particularly arise when entering harmonic numbers for mixtures. There are other situations that at present I cannot think of.

I am sure a re-drafting of the help file is much anticipated and hoping that it would include what Peter mentioned in his lengthy post. It does echo a lot of my sentiments. GO is my favourite software and ODF creation for GO is much easier for me to do. I wish I don't have to depend on others for assistance all the time.

What I "dislike" is the way graphics are handled. I used to find jOrgan much better and easier. If only this were to replace GO's, GO would be simply and absolutely perfect (save for a few other features that could be added eg being able to change tone of each sample (Bass/ Treble setting).

Mark

[larspalo]

Originally posted 2021-03-25 08:42:05.880000 by barbajason in GrandOrgue discussion forum on SourceForge

I have written a report on the ODF architecture for my own learning. It might bring some light to others.
//Jens


Attachments in original post:
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[larspalo]

Originally posted 2021-03-25 10:13:57.196000 by Jean Gabriel in GrandOrgue discussion forum on SourceForge

Hi,
Many thanks for this documents.
I tried do open the .organ file of the demo organ with BlocNote or Notepad in c>programs>GrandOrgue>share>GrandOrgue>packages>demo-4232D4C616E4B99145537F02B34D342D4E3E3808.organ
but it is impossible to read something ...

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[larspalo]

Originally posted 2021-03-25 10:25:42.946000 by barbajason in GrandOrgue discussion forum on SourceForge

The .orgue file is actually a zip archive. Extract it with windows built in un-zipper, 7-zip (windows) or gunzip (unix) and you will find the demo.organ file being a readable text file.

[larspalo]

Originally posted 2021-03-25 10:43:22.306000 by Jean Gabriel in GrandOrgue discussion forum on SourceForge

Ah yes, thank you !!

[larspalo]

Originally posted 2021-08-18 12:15:34.275000 by barbajason in GrandOrgue discussion forum on SourceForge

Here is version 2 of the report. Added a chapter on Setter Elements and fixed the missing Copuler chapter. Enjoy!
//Jens

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