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florin U+0192 should be upright in Roman #42

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moyogo opened this issue Apr 15, 2014 · 8 comments
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florin U+0192 should be upright in Roman #42

moyogo opened this issue Apr 15, 2014 · 8 comments
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@moyogo
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moyogo commented Apr 15, 2014

Ƒ/ƒ is a letter in Ewe language, ƒ florin U+0192 should be upright and have the correct ascender and descender height in Roman.

I’m not sure what is the best option you’d want for the current glyph, the Dutch florin symbol, maybe as a stylistic set or Dutch locl glyph.

@pauldhunt pauldhunt added the bug label Apr 18, 2014
@pauldhunt
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I will likely change this once full support for African languages is added to the fonts.

@dpk dpk mentioned this issue Jun 16, 2014
@adrientetar
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Ƒ/ƒ is a letter in Ewe language, ƒ florin U+0192 should be upright and have the correct ascender and descender height in Roman.

Alternatively is it acceptable to make a ewe locl with the upright letters? The florin symbol has no separate codepoint so that’s what it’s often used for, or e.g. for aperture openings (e.g. on the iPhone presentation page).

@moyogo
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moyogo commented Oct 7, 2014

Alternatively is it acceptable to make a ewe locl with the upright letters?

Anything is acceptable depending on what the scope of the font is.
Are Ewe language users expected to always have appropriate language tagging and the locl feature available considering an italic or figure-height f-hook is never acceptable?
If glyph variants are not available, is an italic font’s letter-height f-hook not acceptable for the Dutch florin?

The florin symbol has no separate codepoint so that’s what it’s often used for, or e.g. for aperture openings (e.g. on the iPhone presentation page).

In formal scientific notation, the focal length symbol (f in f/2.2) is supposed to be an italic f with normal letter height, just like many scientific symbols are italic letters. As many other scientific symbols, it is simply in italic style and more particularly serif italic style, hence the hook.
So if U+0192 was to be designed for the focal length symbol, it should have normal letter height and not figure height. However, U+0192 is probably not the right character for focal length, the normal f character with the appropriate style is.

In informal notations anything goes. The focal length symbol is often in roman style.
On http://www.apple.com/iphone-6/cameras it is represented with U+0192 in “”ƒ/2.2”, the web font used is Myriad, which has a figure-height florin glyph. There is no indication that this is common or preferable.

The same problem arises with other scientific symbols that use the italic f, like the frequency symbol, the function symbol, etc. In scientific notation these should be f with the right style applied or with the appropriate markup (which would end up showing U+1D453 𝑓).

@adrientetar
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Are Ewe language users expected to always have appropriate language tagging and the locl feature available considering an italic or figure-height f-hook is never acceptable?

Yeah, it’s unfortunate. I know that Serbians must have locl to see their specific cyrillic variant for instance.

If glyph variants are not available, is an italic font’s letter-height f-hook not acceptable for the Dutch florin?

That looks like a good settlement indeed.

@adrientetar
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BTW, Wikipedia says ƒ is always italic, Arial has it in italic too. Is all of this wrong then?

@pauldhunt
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Never trust wikipedia. Funnily enough, my default font for emails (Calibri, I believe) displays the character in question as an upright hooked f. It seems that perhaps Microsoft is already building fonts with the Ewe language form as the default.

P

@adrientetar
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I will do that in the future. I just wish that there was a kind of wiki or something for type designers to have all of this info in one place.

@moyogo
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moyogo commented Oct 7, 2014

BTW, Wikipedia says ƒ is always italic, Arial has it in italic too. Is all of this wrong then?

No, Wikipedia says "Lowercase F with hook in regular type on the left and in italic on the right, the florin sign is always in italic".
In fonts where ƒ is meant to be the florin symbol and not the f-hook, it should be italic, otherwise ƒ can (or should) be upright.

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