V2EX http://v2ex.com/t/182766 I'm trying to block Stack Overflow in China: replies and AMA

[cirosantilli]

See: http://stackoverflow.com/users/895245/ciro-santilli-%E5%85%AD%E5%9B%9B%E4%BA%8B%E4%BB%B6-%E6%B3%95%E8%BD%AE%E5%8A%9F

Continuation to: http://v2ex.com/t/182766

I can't reply there, it requires rep... please answer here instead.

Please ping me on Twitter so I can reply next time. Found this with Google Analytics :-)

China is my favorite country in the world, I want you to be even freer and richer than you are today. I don't want any violence.

I'm Brazilian and work in France. My GF is Chinese, she and her mother do (that religion). I don't believe in it at all, but I do believe in freedom of religion and speech.

上看到一个丧心病狂的程序员

lrz0lrz yuelang85 nikolai If someone puts your mother in law in jail without trial, and threatens to do the same to your girlfriend for something you think is unjust, wouldn't you also become "丧心病狂"?

知道so的还不会翻墙？

dorentus phpcxy letv: True, good programmers will definitely be able to climb the wall. But every action we take is statistical: this gives you more trouble, hurts search engines, hurts newbs more, and makes you develop better wall climbing methods.

帝国主义果然亡我之心不死啊

cloudhunter GeBron Reactionary: forces "反动势力" and Imperialism "帝国主义" made me laugh. Are you being ironic? They are pure communist anti-foreign rhetoric that mean nothing is that it?

If not: I'm Brazilian. We've been exploited by the Portuguese, then British, then American. Do you really think I'm an imperialist? I think I'm more left-wing than you are.

http://program-think.blogspot.com/ 这是他的博客，部分观点比较激进

chengzhoukun nice link! http://program-think.blogspot.com/ I may add it to my list: https://github.com/cirosantilli/china-dictatorship

Is this guy so famous?

secondwtq KentY: unfortunately, I'm not famous, and my rep is low. But always trying to get more rep with good answers.

前几天就见过这名字，当时以为是冥晦网派出来的 spammer

zhengkai: I'm a political spammer. I am for freedom of all religions, and freedom of speech of all countries. I don't believe in (that religion).

If you think I work for (that religion), I can also accuse you of working for your government, and neither of us can prove otherwise.

这人我最近经常看见..我一直以为是中国人来着.. 看来我和他的交集蛮大的..

rianq maybe: some day we can work together!

可惜SOF支持https……

wdlth: ah, that makes it harder is that so? I know nothing about networking.

好可愛！

Elethom thanks?!

keeeeymann mimzy: Perapera did not manage to translate what you've said, if you write in English I may reply

All best to all!

[ghost]

You got me. LOL

[ghost]

I don't think he is using the word 「喪心病狂」 as a derogatory term. Just an expression of amazement I guess?

[cirosantilli]

thanks! That crossed my mind since we are all programmers and like that kind of humour, but it's hard for me to decide :-)

[mookrs]

Hi, I am mimzy in V2. I said "归根结底还是为了妹子啊……" means you did all of these for your GF, maybe it is something like men control world , but women control men... Most of us expressed a kind of humour. "丧心病狂" is our catchword, maybe means "crazy but cool ". Good luck to you. You are an interesting man. :)

[cirosantilli]

@mookrs thanks! Of course I do this because of my GF + general beliefs :-) If the party did nothing against those I care about and other Chinese, I wouldn't say anything bad to them ~~

[mookrs]

@cirosantilli I have to go to sleep, it's 3:00 a.m. here. Some guys may come here to reply you after they getting up. You are a little serious (I understand our humor is more or less difficult to comprehend for you.) and really nice. :D Happy May Day and have a good time !

[RobertYim]

Greetings.

This problem seems very important to you and I sorry that I didn‘t take it seriously (on that V2EX post). I really do respect religion and the freedom of beliefs.

We often use 「丧心病狂、反动势力、帝国主义、冥晦网」these kind of words for sarcasm because the crazy Internet censorship. It means no harsh and please don't keep in mind. :)

[riaqn]

Hello, sorry that I didn't know why you 're doing all this when I was replying that post. I should be more serious.
The China government and the CCP is evil, we all know that. But with all respect, is "that religion" Falun Gong? If so, I strongly advise you to help your mother in law get rid of that cult, as much as you can. It's really a cult[1] even more evil than CCP.

That been said, The government shouldn't arrest her without any warrant, not to mention she is a victim, not a offender to the cult.

[1]. http://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-Chinese-government-against-Falun-Gong

[cirosantilli]

@mookrs @Robertyan @riaqn thanks for the reply, you guys are really nice. I was not offended, I imagined it might be humour, but I did not know you were so positively minded either! I am a proud to be a programmer like you guys, and there is great hope for China!

@riaqn That Falun Gong is bad can be argued. And if someone convinces me that it is bad enough to be outlowed, I will remove it from my username.

Thanks for that quora link, I'll add it to my list.

From my personal experience, I have seen nothing wrong with it: my GF, mother seem pretty happy (when outside jail :-) ). But of course, any individual testimony is not evidence enough.

I think those same arguments apply to any other religion, in particular Christianity (I believe neither), which was considered "the cult of Jesus" by the Roman empire, claimed to cure people, claimed that the world would end, and was a major concern for the stability of the dictatorial state.

Like any other religion, it is impossible to convince believers otherwise: possibly the more you try, the worse it is, because it generates even stronger feelings. Likely Christianity was fuelled by the Roman empire's repression much like FLG by the CCP.

Also like any religion, no one can prove or disprove it.

Then there is the question of what can be done about it. The top post on the quora question you've linked to says: do nothing and punish individuals, which is exactly what I think, but it is a truly difficult question.

Let's move that discussion to: https://github.com/cirosantilli/chat/issues/3 , http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/27529/have-many-falun-gong-practitioners-forgone-medical-treatment-and-died-of-treatab

[secondwtq]

I'm secondwtq and I was saying about http://program-think.blogspot.com/, I read his articles years ago :)

[cirosantilli]

@secondwtq hi there. Is the blog any good, fun, or just purely extremist?

[secondwtq]

@cirosantilli Hi, but I don't think I'm capable of making any objective comment on this yet. Anyway, it exposes lots of things not available from other channels and however, I cannot validate them, too.

[zhengkai]

LOL, 冥晦网 is a censored name for minghui.org (明慧网), they are the same sounds

I just kidding, I know what do you want. I'm in China and I access internet with whitelist ( only few sites which I allowed are not using ssh tunnel proxy) lots of years ago.

[cirosantilli]

@zhengkai ahh, now I get it. That is a nice one: same sound but opposite meaning! That's one of the reasons I love Chinese :-)

[VirgilMing]

Man I am totally in agreement with your faith.
But... Well, we programmers in China just can't start a revolution because of practical reasons. The sophisticated hierarchy, so called 「体制」, is not the only one to blame. You'll need to revert public misunderstanding, stereotypes and prejudices. That's at least Herculean.
People that can find here and wanna chat with you are exceptionally biased, with more or less belief in pure and total freedom of speech, with skill in English and coding, with an open mind. That's hard to find.
All these does not mean to frustrate you. But if we really wanna make a difference, we need to be more practical.

[cirosantilli]

@VirgilMing thanks for your reply!

I agree with all you say.

I was half joking about revolution :-)

Every political movement is statistical, and every social change starts from somewhere.

I'm just trying to tilt the balance one little tiny bit towards freedom.

And above all, I'm gathering a list of allies for freedom.

we need to be more practical.

If you have any actions that are more efficient, let me know. 😄

I have no great expectations for my actions.

You guys make me proud to be a programmer.

[haibindev]

oh no.......it's a bad idea

[cirosantilli]

@haibindev hey there, what is a bad idea?

[acgtyrant]

@cirosantilli Are your girlfriend and her mother OK now?

[cirosantilli]

@acgtyrant yes, she is fine now, thank you Isaac!

[mireclass]

funny...
结果大家：

• 翻墙上 SO
• 不上 SO 而改去各种使用中文的社区网站提问/解答/找方法

[cirosantilli]

@tkcrown raise awareness that GFW sucks

[cirosantilli]

@mireclass Let's stick to English here so that the whole world can understand :-)

What you say is true, the world is not going to end without SO.

But I do estimate is is currently the best source.

Another option is to use data clones that don't show author names, see also: https://github.com/cirosantilli/notes/blob/master/stack-overflow/clones.md

[GilbertGeliba]

@cirosantilli Hello there, I just replied one of the issues, then I realized I am probably helping you to achieve your goal: making the Firewall block SO, even GitHub, as I am using the taboo words. Please tell me you are not doing this for payback or revenge because what happened to your mother-in-law and tell me you are doing this really for the truth. I have read your comments, it seems you are a rational guy, but who knows. Whatsoever, you are throwing the burden to people who use SO or GitHub from inside China. No matter how your goal is glory, no matter you are doing this in name of freedom or human rights, I think you should not do this any more. And reality is you may succeed, but Chinese programmer's life will be getting harder. Do you really believe that Chinese programmers would stand up to Chinese government for blocking SO? The whole idea of the Internet is to make information exchage easy, that's why GFW sucks. You are literally trying to use GFW to block information. I see no difference between you and Chinese government regardless of how you define your goal. Actually, the Internet is forcing the Chinese government to make the change. Many of the taboo words you mentioned are really not that taboo any more. GFW will collapse one day.

[cirosantilli]

@GilbertGeliba

as I am using the taboo words

Whenever we discuss things that are taboo for the commies, we say taboo words.

Please note that the true cause of censorship is the commies, not me.

By using taboo words I'm just making it clear how stupid I think they are.

payback or revenge

If you meant payback against Chinese individuals, definitely not!! I want you to be free, and happy, and rich.

If you meant "payback or revenge" against the government, I don't like to use that word, but it is difficult to distinguish between payback and constructive complaint.

Do you really believe that Chinese programmers would stand up to Chinese government for blocking SO?

https://github.com/cirosantilli/china-dictatorship/blob/master/FAQ.md#what-you-are-doing-will-never-have-any-effect

I see no difference between you and Chinese government regardless of how you define your goal.

So please write a public complaint to them as well =)

Actually, the Internet is forcing the Chinese government to make the change.

https://github.com/cirosantilli/china-dictatorship/blob/master/FAQ.md#if-stack-overflow-if-blocked-there-will-be-less-good-programmers-to-fight-against-the-dictatorship

[cirosantilli]

@tkcrown so if someone from your family is put into jail unjustly, you won't complain against those who did it?

[cirosantilli]

@tkcrown the more you dislike me for it, the more it reaches my goal: reminding you that the commies suck :-)

If you "hate" the commies as much as you "hate" me (both of whom are responsible for taking SO from you), you are (paradoxically) my ally.

Peace my friend!

[VirgilMing]

@cirosantilli I wondered why this was brought up again. Maybe because Shadowsocks got terminated?

I feel for those who got mad at you. Here I try to explain their idea as I understand without all those flaming words.

You try to raise awareness that GFW sucks, which people who can reach you just know no less. We have seen this sucker in play for over a decade. Dating back to like 2004 or ever earlier it already started hijacking Google to Baidu.

But then you are just creating trouble for those who would otherwise not have it, or at least not for sure. How are you going to justify this? I really don't see there's any notorious "greater good," for that matter.

[cirosantilli]

@VirgilMing I don't know what is shadowsocks, I will research. There have been two other recent interesting events:

• another thread on v2ex: https://www.v2ex.com/t/214015
• http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/302667/whats-up-with-china

[secondwtq]

@cirosantilli

I don't know what is shadowsocks, I will research.

You should do it, one week earlier, maybe.

[ghost]

So, people believing in ISIS is also a behavior that you support as the name of freedom?

[cirosantilli]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

I win the argument :-)

Unsubscribing from this thread. Open a new one if you want if you have anything so say to me. Cheers.

[ghost]

No you didn't.
You are saying that chinese government is an evil, just like Hitler.
Meaning that we are right here to talking about "Hitler or not" issue. There is nothing about Godwin's law.

[ghost]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csFWVCBlaBo
Watch this video if you can speak Chinese.

You said: people should be able to choose the way how to die.
In theory, I agree with you. If you want to suiside, I won't try to stop.

The problem is: MOST of people are trying to suiside, trying to destroy the science. In your opinion, what should a government do? NOTHING???

I wonder if you know about the western history and I'm sure that you don't know about China at all. Have you ever been in China? How long? a week? Do you know about the history of China? Do you know about 巫蛊？一贯道？

About two thousand years ago, chinese people fought against 巫蛊.
About one hundred years ago, chinese people fought against 一贯道.
About twenty years ago, we fought against FLG.

Can you explain why we fight against ISIS? Does ISIS have the right to kill you as the name of freedom?

LHZ is a living mortal who call himself the GOD, you think this is a religion? A mortal can be the GOD? religion or liar? Obviously you even don't know what the definition of religion is.

What if your mom get sick and refuse going to hospital?

If you fight with the communist party, no problem.
If you support FLG, I'll say: you are anti-human.