Make the patcher copy folders that have a certain named pattern #926
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it would also need to update the memoria.ini file, but should be possible, I would look at possibly using an archive type setup with multiple mod folders inside it so people can create mod pack installers? Would you like me to look into it? |
why bundle patcher though ? can it not be a bat file ? |
a .bat file is not trusted by anyone but people who know how to read them, and even less so by Anti-Viruses when they are downloading &/ extracting files. it does not look very complete does opening up command prompts we have a loverly UI when using it why not make a nice UI for setup, and if people want to build mod packs give them the ability to within having janky hacked together things. So to support a .bat we would still have to code into the patcher for the bat file to invoke it because there is no way the .bat file is writing a datastore file with options set inside it. then since we would have to be coding a proper solution anyway might as well get it in line with the new styles and make it feal uniform. |
I don't see the added value of a bat file, when memoria patcher is already moving and copying files around by itself? |
perhaps i did not phrase my response that well. i understand you point. i thought the idea was much more like case use for small projects. :) |
Noted. I didn't mean to suggest that a batch file is an alternative to your idea. Rather, my thought process was this: if a modder has a project or mod and simply wants to inject or transfer its contents directly into the game root, it's not that difficult to automate with a batch file. This is part of my own workflow for my mods, but it seems that's not the case here, so let me elaborate. A few thoughts come to mind: First, is there a real use case for bundling Memoria's patcher (the main installer) with someone’s project? Not long ago, Moguri had an installer with a version of Memoria, TheMighty bundled Memoria with his project, and Echo-S had its own installer linking to the patcher. However, having multiple patchers with the same name across different projects might confuse users. This could partly explain why Memoria, despite being both the engine and mod manager, is still relatively obscure. Over-all its weird that The Patcher is included in mods.. Say for example, can you imagine something like the 7th Heaven installer being bundled with another project.... Another point is that it might undermine the mod catalog unless the catalog itself is on the way out. Bundling patchers with individual mods could lead to modders and users neglecting the catalog altogether. A modder could easily package their mod with a patcher, and users might prefer these bundled mods out of convenience, bypassing the catalog entirely. Lastly, there’s the potential for bad actors. Someone could repackage existing mods, make slight changes, and release it under a different name—perhaps even call it something like “FF9: Remake” in another language. This ecosystem, including the mod catalog and Nexus, is vulnerable to this. A person could bundle several mods into one folder, set the memoria.ini to read-only, and configure the game to skip the launcher altogether. They wouldn't even need the official installer since it’s already included. Furthermore, say for example, another voice mod that is not echo-s and shall remain nameless... does this. Don’t get me wrong—I’m just thinking about the possibilities this opens up. I could be wrong, but we should consider whether this would truly be beneficial or if it risks opening Pandora’s box. While it may work well for a few projects, it also provides an easy path for those with bad intentions. |
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@faospark you raise some very good points,
My aim is to ensure that our installer is used exclusively, regardless of the project. Although this is a long-term goal, the first version will simply be a setup
This is another reason to standardize our installer to avoid confusion. Regardless of the mod being shipped, the Memoria installer should always be our official installer signed the same way we sign the patcher now.
Hopefully not because the mod manager should still attempt to update mods even if installed via the installer, helping to reduce this risk, There are some aspects that are beyond our control within the Modding community. Whether or not a mod manager is used, people can still download manually and add malicious code to mods a trick users into installing the modified version, including utilizing batch files. If someone distributes a compromised version of Memoria, we can’t completely prevent it. However, my proposal aims to mitigate this risk. By having a uniform installer that attempts to download a signed version when online, similar to how the patcher is currently signed, we can help prevent malicious modifications. Our installer will pull from our GitHub Releases. My master planPlease note these are just my initial idea's on what i would like I'm working with @SamsamTS and @snouz to build this the way we all think is the correct way we might stop and never hit stage 3 i don't know yet. Stage 1) Stage 2) {
"mods":[
{
"name":"Alternate Fantasy 9",
"folder": "af9"
}
]
}The installer will check for Stage 3)
I hope this clears up any confusion and makes it clear I'm trying my best to make this as secure as possible. |
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Thank you for responding @barkermn01, much appreciated. Don’t get me wrong, I see the intent is good, but I also think it's necessary to ask the hard questions. So here we go. At this point, the installer is pretty much standardized. It has been for a while—it’s just that past devs tended to treat it as a dependency rather than what it actually is: The Engine, Launcher, and Mod Manager. The confusion didn’t arise because there were multiple installers; it occurred because projects treated Memoria as a side dependency and prioritized their own project names. We are now working with a much more capable tool compared to before. To give an example, look at the 7th Heaven mod manager (which also installs FFNx). Out of the 124 mods published on Nexus for Final Fantasy VII, not one contains an installer for the 7th Heaven mod manager. Instead, they ask you to download the manager and install it separately. Which leads to my first rhetorical question: Why are we even allowing the patcher to look like a minor dependency and not the main requirement for the mods? I think you’ve provided an answer, but it complicates things just to get one result. The modding paradigm is straightforward: if a mod manager exists, you download and install it first. Then, you download mods from any source and install them according to the mod manager’s rules. For all intents and purposes, the proposed idea is exactly the same as what some mods have done with their installers—just possibly without the .exe. It’s essentially an installer for a project, regardless of how anyone wants to complicate it. It feels like a step back, not forward, in my humble opinion. Upon your further elaboration, @barkermn01, I see this is for a very specific use case, which I appreciate you revealing.
First, I personally think @snouz would not want to revert to a separate installer, given the amount of time and effort they had to invest in packaging Moguri along with its other two components, plus setting up download services for it to be compliant and downloadable via the mod manager. Unless I’m wrong, I don’t see that happening. Now, returning to the matter at hand: Since no other mods in the catalog, Nexus, or general Final Fantasy IX modding ecosystem come with an installer, we’re left with just one—Echo-S. So, here’s s question: Is it impossible for this project to be bundled as a Memoria Mod Package? It’s just a zip file with the required files. If it has other dependencies, you can still use your installer and just instruct people to ensure they have the latest Memoria installed—like the case of any other mod that uses a manager. Isn’t that the simpler approach? I hope I don’t come across as antagonistic. If we are going to objectively assess the situation, we are trying to create a solution to a predicament that isn’t necessarily a Memoria problem. Are we willing to add layers of complexity now and in the future, rather than simply ask people to install the latest version of Memoria and the voice mod on top of it? This is also adding another layer where the entire Memoria project will adjust specifically for one project. It will create complications, as elaborated, with featured mods being assigned IDs for integrity checks, requiring an almost always-online system just to verify if a mod is featured or not. If you guys aren’t busy, I’d also like to hear the thoughts of @Tirlititi and @Albeoris on this. |
Amen to that. Let Memoria be the mod manager it's meant to be. I said it before but I'll say it again here, I'm against letting people distribute Memoria with their own projects. I'm in favor of having one and unique official source for Memoria. Now something I've been thinking that could be good to make manual installation easier (in case downloading from the manager is not a possibility, which is the case for some people) is to have the launcher accept drag and drops. People would just have to drop the archive of the mod directly onto the launcher window and the mod would be installed and activated automatically. |
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Agreed with faospark, and Samsam's idea of drag-and-drop, which can also be useful in some situations. |
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Having co-created AtmaWeapon (mod installer for FF6), I agree with the previous few messages that it is usually way easier for casual users to just have a single mod manager/installer... Of course advanced user that really do not want to use it can always do everything manually - but changing the patcher to allow for distribution of a single mod with just a tiny part while excluding the manager itself seems to be opening the door to a lot more abuse and confusion -- and I think it will ultimately confuse the more casual players that would have otherwise enjoyed having the mod installer many optional choices. |
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Well to start with here is the basic installer, it required the new Patcher, so currently i have the patcher and the installer on my Repo for people to test with. i have a draft PR, but i had already done most of the work for this hence it's here. feedback would be nice. https://github.com/barkermn01/Memoria/releases/tag/test If we're all happy with it i will update change stuff to use this repo ready for release. |
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To make this discussion less holy war-like, I’d suggest starting with a very brief description of usage scenarios, commonly known as User Stories. As I understand it, there are currently two:
Then, I’d consider the issues we face:
Memoria.Patcher works well as an installer for Memoria's core, but not for additional modifications for the reasons outlined above. I fully agree that new mods should promote Memoria as the engine and help expand the player and mod maker community using it. However, I also believe that installing large-scale mods should not be more complicated than Next -> Next -> Next. The plan described by @barkermn01 seems to address both problems if we integrate The user downloads an "installer" or "launcher," runs it, selects the installation directory, and, on the next page, checks the desired mods. Local catalog can be like: I believe this approach would address all the issues. What do you think? |
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With the new drag and drop feature I recently added, manual installation is a lot easier now. The two situations I can see are
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@Albeoris i appreciate the response .
currently Memoria is now a mod manager so the true scenarios are
Addendum : Now what is proposed on this issue raised it to make another pathway but more like and exemption if would be more direct. |
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I mean something like:
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For security reasons having mods distributing an exe is a very bad idea. I'd rather they don't. |
@SamsamTS , why, if it will be our signed |
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There is no guaranty it's our signed installer they are distributing. The code source is available, a malicious person can compile their own version and distribute it. Having the installer distributed from one unique official source is better for safety or at the very least for peace of mind. I don't want to encourage modders to distribute our installer. Now if all they are distributing is the Also if people start getting a virus from some malicious installer we don't want people accusing us for putting it in. |
The same thing that is happening now with
No, he won't be able to, since we will have a signed installer. That is, I understand your concerns, but I don't understand how they relate to the problems described here.
Yes, that's the idea.
To do this you need to do 2 actions - install Mod Manager, install the mod.
This is solved by downloading the mod from our catalog and checking the checksums if it is delivered locally. If the checksum does not match or the mod is not in the catalog, we will display a large warning about this, warning the user that this is done at their own risk. Like:
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I do it all the time with the patcher. Nothing has ever stopped me from compiling it. Memoria as a precedent of not being signed, people will run the unsigned patcher.
That's the modding procedure for many other games. I don't really see much utility to be able to select the mods before rather than after installing the mod manager. It's either select the mods to install, then install the manager, or install the manager then select the mods. For quite a while people were using an old version of memoria because a popular mod was distributing it. You have to realize that once people start distributing our exe, we lose control of it, we can't ever force them (the people distributing) to update it. Now if you guys really want to go that direction I won't try to stop you but I still think it's a bad idea, no matter how many precautions you take. |
And we can't do anything about it. :)
And this case is already covered by the built-in Mod Manager. The problem is when you install the "product" and not the "mod". For example, the authors made a Polish localization with voice acting for characters, and distribute their package under the name "Polish voice acting for Final Fantasy IX". Now it will be a custom TL;DR; But I don't see any reason why we can't give the opportunity to those who want to make such modpacks, if it doesn't create any downsides. |
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Something I might do, regardless if we do an installer or not, is extend the drag and drop functionality to support mod packs. Zip all desired mods and a preset (optional) together and there, your mod pack is done. In fact I was thinking, if a preset includes mods, the launcher should check if they are installed and ask to install those that are not if they exist in the catalog. That way people can just share their preset, acting like a mod pack. (Drag and drop for presets is already implemented).
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Everyone here agrees this was the goal. As mod contributors, we're promoting Memoria to gain more recognition as the engine/launcher/mod manager. Unfortunately, 60-70% of people who play FFIX with mods refer to the launcher and manager as Moguri, not Memoria. Kudos to Snouz for bundling Moguri as a mod, but we still have to inform users and content creators that it's Memoria making this possible, not Moguri. It has not even been a year since the move was made But here we are already like allowing for another Mod to have pathway where in principle the mod is just treating Memoria like an inconvenient thing you need to install simply because the mod creators dont want to tell people users the need to install Memoria first...so they disguised it as a mod pack ?
Well there is plenty of things to consider. In line with my previous points, Instead of requiring the mod in question to follow the same standards as other mods, we are effectively giving it special treatment by creating a unique pathway for it. This opens the door for mods that directly compete with or replace those in the mod manager to gain an unfair advantage—they can easily outperform those in the catalog because they are simplified for the user, who only needs to download the mod without even considering Memoria. While it’s not certain this will happen, the possibility is there. 1, This approach could have significant downsides. For example, a mod developed by an independent creator in the catalog could be easily overshadowed by one supported by a large modding group. If that mod is bundled in a mod pack with direct installation, users are unlikely to explore other alternatives in the catalog, even if they exist. Furthermore, if this change moves forward, it shifts the perspective on what’s permissible. If Echo-S can leverage this flexibility, then all mods should be able to as well. As mod creators, we also need to compete for visibility and downloads. Currently, there’s already a layer of complexity in adding mods to the catalog; in fact, many of us create two versions of our mods—one with a direct link and another for alternative sites like NexusMods. Speaking with other contributors, I find that the general sentiment is that they would prefer a direct link to NexusMods, as downloads there offer some return. While being featured in the mod manager is valuable and serves as a form of endorsement, many contributors would appreciate more options that simplify this process. Instead of simplifying how we look on this we need to look deeper implications of this down the line. |
My idea is that if you add a specific name in an integrated folder, for example MoguriMain_integrated, the patcher would automatically copy it to FFIX, and remove the "_integrated" in the name
This would allow projects that want to bundle Memoria to just have the patcher in their zip, and clicking it would copy their own projects there, with minimal human intervention (no need to find the right folder, extract...)
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