Brainstorming: Something less than suggested

[NathanKell]

Right now RO "suggests" a lot of mods. This is not terribly helpful to new players, because they think that means "I should download them all" not, as we mean it, "we support these". Further, AFAIK CKAN does not support any kind of popup on package select (a popup where we could state something like "note: CKAN will show a list of suggested mods, but all that means is RO is compatible with them".

Anybody got any ideas? :)

[solarsootysmudge]

This can also lead to a misunderstanding when #1572 Timeout error appears. Or to a crash when memory cap for mods is passed by using too many.

I would suggest that on an initial install and first time use of CKAN. An information tool tip appears floating over the first appearance of the additional supported mods list.

This tool tip is a reminder that these are optional and subject to pushing memory requirements. The new user can then make an informed decision on how to continue.

As always such a pop up tooltip should have an option to dismiss it. So once it has served it's purpose it can be permanently hidden.

[dbent]

Well there is the supports relationship which is the weakest possible relationship (one step below suggests). There has previously been disagreement about what supports actually means (#1104), but my take on it is that supports means "This mod has made special consideration for but in no way requires this other mod". For example, the canonical supports relationship in my mind would be on Toolbar. If a mod wants to "support" Toolbar is has to add some extra code, but Toolbar isn't in any way required.

In my mind, supports however should not be used as a general "is compatible with" relationship since all mods are assumed to be compatible with all other mods unless a conflicts relationship exists.

[dbent]

For completeness:

• depends: There's no point in installing this mod without this other mod. Therefore CKAN won't even install this mod without the other one. (e.g. a lot of mods and ModuleManager)
• recommends: You can install this mod without this other mod, but it's really better that you do. Therefore CKAN will install this other mod by default. (e.g. A mod where the only way to access its settings is through a Toolbar button should recommend Toolbar).
• suggests: It would be a good idea to install this other mod, but you're not missing much if you don't. Therefore CKAN will offer to install this other mod but won't do so by default. (e.g. I would say mods that have example craft should suggest installing example craft)
• supports: This mod was explicitly made compatible with this other mod but in no way depends on, recommends, or suggests it. Therefore CKAN won't even mention it unless the user asks (by listing mod information). (e.g. as previously mentioned most mods and Toolbar).

[mheguy]

I think we cover the relationships pretty well as detailed by @dbent. Where we might improve is communicating the meaning of those relationships to users.

Currently we use the phrases:
The following modules have been recommended by one or more of the chosen modules:
and
The following modules have been suggested by one or more of the chosen modules:

when listing recommends and suggests respectively. While those words have very specific meanings to CKAN (and in the English language at large), the granularity of the meanings could well be misinterpreted by users.

The very fact that recommends defaults as selected and suggests defaults as deselected should already create a distinction, but we could definitely reword the UI in order to reinforce it.

Something more casually worded might help:
The following mods have been selected because they greatly enhance the experience of your selected mods:
and
The following are mods can enhance your experience with your selected mods, but are certainly not necessary:

[NathanKell]

I would support something like that, yes. Or just "The following mods are recommended for use" vs "The following mods are especially noted to be compatible" or something like that.

Further evidence of this problem. User says "I only installed what RO recommends!" and posts this list of mods

And wonders why they crash.

[janbrohl]

I would understand "supports" as "is positively known (tested?) to play well with"

[HebaruSan]

This issue seems to be more about end user confusion than about a technical need for a new kind of relationship. Here's what RO's rec/sug list looks like nowadays:

I think a few things work together to make it clearer than it used to be:

• You can see at a glance that there are two separate lists
• It explicitly says "Recommendations" and "Suggestions" above the lists
• One list of mods is checked by default and the other is unchecked

I don't think a modern user would think that the suggestions were recommendations. Also worth noting is that the user in the linked forum thread was on a pre-64-bit version of KSP; it likely wouldn't crash now.