Report inboxes #6
Conversation
Minor clarification
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| ### When creating reports, users will be able to select if it's a mod report, or an admin report (or both) | ||
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Idea: Include a list of usernames of the mods and admins here (perhaps truncated to the top N of them if there's a lot) to make it crystal clear who is receiving the report.
EDIT: As I note below, it should probably be phrased as
"Does the reported content violate community rules or server rules?
- Community rules (report to mods: )
- Server rules (report to admins: )"
The list of users could still be included for clarity.
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Agreed, added a note about this to the RFC
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| ### When creating reports, users will be able to select if it's a mod report, or an admin report (or both) | ||
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The image shows the options as checkboxes - is the intention that you should be able to send the report to both admins and mods? Otherwise this should use radio buttons.
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I think it makes sense to be able to send reports to both, I would keep it as checkboxes
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Either that or a radio button / enum with Both, AdminsOnly, ModsOnly .
I'd prefer that Both be the default, since the majority of reports (at least on lemmy.ml), are for spam or site-wide rule breaking, rather than community rule-breaking.
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If users can ignore the choice between admin or mod, they will simply use the default. That would make the whole RFC moot. So I think there should only be radio buttons for either admin or mod.
Anyway please update the image with the agreed layout, or get rid of the image. Its too confusing to have completely different suggestions in the image and text.
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Having both as an option definitely seems useful.
For example, if someone posts nsfw content and forgets or intentionally marks it as not nsfw, this is something that should be addressed as soon as possible, where having the community mods informed in case admins are not immediately available increases the amount of people that might be able to deal with the issue quickly.
This of course also applies to various other problematic content, but even for the spam example mentioned for lemmy.ml.
Having spam reported to both community mods and site admins can allow community mods to take the content down even before site admins will be to perform a site ban if they're not immediately available.
edit: I see this was mentioned by dessalines further down already
0000-report-inboxes.md
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| * All reports - Shows a read-only view of all (admin and mod) reports, only visible to admins | ||
| * This is a read-only version of the current 0.19.3 admin report view, and would allow admins to still keep an eye on mod actions on their instance if they wish |
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I feel like there is no practical need to make this read-only. Admins can alter stuff anyway if they wanted to, there's no need for the UI to try and hide that. But admins shouldn't get "unread report" notices about this view at least.
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Yeah, I think you're right. I think the best way forward is to just show a confirmation dialog with a warning when an admin wants to resolve a report which is not in their own report inbox.
0000-report-inboxes.md
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| ### Resolving reports should be more granular | ||
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| * Reports in the "admin reports" tab can only be resolved for admins of the local instance | ||
| * To reduce overhead, **banning the reported user on the user's home instance + removing reported content should automatically resolve reports for remote admins as well** |
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I don't understand this - what do you mean by remove admins? I was under the impression that admin reports only go to the local admin and doesn't federate. Why would you want to report something to an admin that is not of your own instance?
Do we need 3 options? I.e.:
- Report to community mods (regardless of whether they are local or remote users).
- Report to local admins (only my own instance's admins)
- Report to all admins (federate report to all admins the instance knows of)
That last options seems... excessive? I suspect I could be flooded with reports even if I only had a small instance. Is the "report to admins" you're talking about in this RFC number 2 or number 3?
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I think users should not have the ability to generate reports to ALL federated admins, however, I think when submitting a report to admins, it should always go to all relevant admins.
The set of relevant admins depends on context, there are three options:
- feddit.dk user reports a post by another feddit.dk user, which was created in a feddit.dk community
- Only feddit.dk admins should get the report
- feddit.dk user reports a post by a lemm.ee user in either a lemm.ee or a feddit.dk community
- Both lemm.ee and feddit.dk admins should receive the report
- feddit.dk user reports a post by a lemm.ee user in a lemmy.ml community
- All of lemm.ee, feddit.dk and lemmy.ml admins should get the report
In the second and third scenario, it makes sense to automatically resolve reports for remote admins as well, when the user is banned on their home community & the reported content has been removed (because at that point there is no further actions any admin on any instance can take for that report).
However, if a feddit.dk admin bans the lemm.ee user first, the report should not be automatically resolved for lemm.ee admins, because they might still want to ban the user locally as well.
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That makes a lot of sense - I don't think the way the RFC is written right now makes it clear that that is what you mean, perhaps explicitly talk about those 3 scenarios as it made it clear to me :)
0000-report-inboxes.md
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| * Reports in the "mod reports" tab can only be resolved by relevant mods. Admins can only resolve these if they are also explicit mods in the relevant communities. | ||
| * To reduce overhead, **admins banning the reported user on the community instance OR the user's home instance + removing reported content should automatically resolve reports for mods as well** | ||
| * Reports in the "all reports" tab can not be resolved, they are only there for a read-only overview | ||
| * This is to prevent cases of admins accidentally preventing mods from moderating according to their own community rules |
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Admins should have the power of overruling mods though. If mods don't like the admin of the instance where their community lives, they should find a different instance to host their community.
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Sure, but I don't think that's relevant for resolving reports. I mean, admins can always remove content, ban users, etc. This point is more about preventing admins from inadvertently hiding reports from mods.
| ### Mods should be able to escalate reports to admins | ||
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| This would generate a corresponding report in the admin inbox. |
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This sounds like a very nice thing to have.
| # Drawbacks | ||
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| It might make reporting slightly more confusing for end users - the mod/admin distinction might not be fully clear to all. |
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Another idea:
What if instead of saying
- Report to admins
- Report to mods
We say:
- Does this break a rule in this community? (this will report to mods)
- Does this break a rule on this server? (this will report to admins)
If we made rules actual data instead of just text, you could even imagine a follow-up question like
- Does this break a rule in this community?
- Breaks Rule 1: "Only posts relevant stuff".
- Breaks Rule 2: "Something something rule
- Something else (freetext reason)
- Does this break a rule on this server? (this will report to admins)
- Breaks Rule 1: "No bigotry"
- Breaks Rule 2: "No illegal activity"
- Something else (freetext reason)
Just as an example, hope that makes sense. I think such a flow would make it simpler for users.
However that could perhaps be pushed to further work and not necessarily be part of this RFC.
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I like the simple, less verbose options better: Report to Both, Report to Admins only, Report to Community Mods only
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I think the problem is that it's a non-obvious choice that the user might not be truly capable of answering. I imagine most users would ask themselves "how do I know whether it should go to an admin or a mod?". Some users might not even know the difference between an admin and a mod.
However, the user is more likely to be able to answer or at least find the answer when asked about the rules of the community or the rules of the server.
The follow-up questions for each specific rule would also make it a lot easier for the user to answer, as they would have pre-defined options. The user wouldn't even have to go look for the rules.
It's not like this is rocket science, Reddit does literally the same thing. I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel here.
So yes, it is more verbose but also a lot more user-friendly. Generally Lemmy is not too user-friendly at the moment and I think it can do a lot better in this aspect.
Incorporate suggestions
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Thanks for the comments @SorteKanin , I have responded to a few and incorporated several changes into the RFC! |
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This is a very good idea, and should solve the issue of report jurisdiction.
My only recommendation, based on our reports for lemmy.ml , is that since the majority of reports are for spam or bigoted content (which breaks site-wide rules), the priority is to get eyes on them, and handled as fast as possible. So I'd recommend that Send to Both be the default selection, rather than Send to Admins only or Send to Mods only.
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| ### When creating reports, users will be able to select if it's a mod report, or an admin report (or both) | ||
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Either that or a radio button / enum with Both, AdminsOnly, ModsOnly .
I'd prefer that Both be the default, since the majority of reports (at least on lemmy.ml), are for spam or site-wide rule breaking, rather than community rule-breaking.
| ### Instead of the current single report inbox, there will be three different kinds of inboxes | ||
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| * Admin reports - show all reports sent to admins (only visible to admins) | ||
| * Mod reports - show all reports sent to mods for any communities the user moderates (visible to admins in case they are explicit mods in any communities) |
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I have some reservations about limiting what admins can see, but I agree that it would defeat the purpose of this entirely if admins were able to see reports that are intended only for community mods.
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I've heard from lemmy.world people that they tend to have a larger number of open reports at any time.
Having mod reports separate would address the issue where community mods, who are also admins, currently don't have any way to see mod reports filtered to the communities they are moderating.
| * Reports in the "admin reports" tab can only be manually resolved for admins of the local instance | ||
| * To reduce overhead, **banning the reported user on the user's home instance + removing reported content should automatically resolve reports for remote admins as well**. | ||
| * Reports in the "mod reports" tab should be manually resolved by relevant mods (including admins, if they are explicit mods in the relevant community). | ||
| * To reduce overhead, **admins banning the reported user on the community instance OR the user's home instance + removing reported content should automatically resolve reports for mods as well** |
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Thanks, was hoping to see this, otherwise we're increasing the workload for everyone.
| The UI wouldn't need to change for mods, but for admins, there would be a new selection at the top of the reports page (the "mod reports" tab would only be visible if the admin is also a mod in any community): | ||
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| ### Resolving reports should be more granular |
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I had to read this over a few times to fully understand it. Might be good to break this into 3 sub-headings. And what resolving, or removing does to the other inboxes.
#### Reports to Admins
#### Reports to Mods
#### Reports to Both
| # Drawbacks | ||
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| It might make reporting slightly more confusing for end users - the mod/admin distinction might not be fully clear to all. |
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I like the simple, less verbose options better: Report to Both, Report to Admins only, Report to Community Mods only
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| * Users are not currently able to bypass mods and report directly to admins - this may allow mods to conceal instance rule breaking in specific communities | ||
| * Admins are not aware of community rules, so they may wish to take no action for most community rule breaking reports. However, if an admin resolves such a report, the relevant community mods most likely never see it. | ||
| * Different instances may have different rules, but somebody resolving a report on one instance will resolve it for other instances as well, thus potentially resulting in missed reports. |
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This is incorrect. If you resolve a report, that only affects your local instance. Mods or admins on other instances have to resolve it separately.
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| # Unresolved questions | ||
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| Does ActivityPub properly support splitting up reports like this? |
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We can set the to and audience fields either to the instance url or the community url depending on the target.
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It looks good so far, but I expect an RFC to be more technical. Similar to #5 it should explain which specific changes are necessary to the database schema, the api and to federation. |
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When we do get the ability to resolve mod reports separately from admin reports, this seems like a good opportunity to also include federation of mod reports to mod inboxes of all remote instances having moderators in the affected community, as well as federating resolving those reports. This would also affect the ability of admins being able to resolve mod level reports without elevating themselves to moderator (on the community's home instance). If an admin on an instance, which contains a community mod, but is not home to the community, resolves a report on mod level, this will make the report appear resolved for the local moderators on that instance, but not to any other community moderators. |
This is a proposal to split up report inboxes into mod reports and admin reports.
Please check out the rendered markdown here