Help with TRV and radiator inside small encapsulated space - self regulation

[0verEngineer]

Hey, i have a TRV and a radiator inside a small encapsulated space the problem is the self regulation does not help very well in this case so i tried to use the expert mode and set the offset_max to 8 but this does not help me very much.

The problem is it does not heat most of the time because it is so warm where the TRV is and the room temp is too low most of the times and it takes a lot of time to heat the room because of this.

I don't quite understand the self regulation variables.

What of the variables should i modify to get it to heat probably?

[jmcollin78]

Hello, to help with regulation we need to have some curve. You have example of regulation curve in the readme (https://github.com/jmcollin78/versatile_thermostat/blob/main/README.md#algorithm).
We also need to know which Vtherm type you use and how it is configured. So please post the attributes of your Vtherm (https://github.com/jmcollin78/versatile_thermostat/blob/main/README.md#algorithm)

[0verEngineer]

Sorry, i forgot to add it, here are the attributes:

hvac_modes: auto, heat, off
min_temp: 7
max_temp: 35
target_temp_step: 0.5
preset_modes: none, frost, eco, comfort, boost
current_temperature: 22.2
temperature: 23
hvac_action: heating
preset_mode: comfort
is_on: true
hvac_mode: heat
type: null
is_controlled_by_central_mode: true
last_central_mode: null
frost_temp: 24
eco_temp: 21
boost_temp: 25
comfort_temp: 23
frost_away_temp: 0
eco_away_temp: 0
boost_away_temp: 0
comfort_away_temp: 0
power_temp: null
target_temperature_step: 0.5
ext_current_temperature: 1.79
ac_mode: false
current_power: null
current_power_max: null
saved_preset_mode: comfort
saved_target_temp: 23
saved_hvac_mode: null
motion_sensor_entity_id: null
motion_state: null
power_sensor_entity_id: null
max_power_sensor_entity_id: null
overpowering_state: null
presence_sensor_entity_id: null
presence_state: null
window_state: off
window_auto_state: off
window_bypass_state: false
window_sensor_entity_id: null
window_delay_sec: null
window_auto_enabled: false
window_auto_open_threshold: null
window_auto_close_threshold: null
window_auto_max_duration: null
window_action: window_turn_off
security_delay_min: 60
security_min_on_percent: 0.5
security_default_on_percent: 0.1
last_temperature_datetime: 2024-11-16T22:57:16.025148+01:00
last_ext_temperature_datetime: 2024-11-16T23:07:47.473103+01:00
security_state: false
minimal_activation_delay_sec: 10
device_power: 1
mean_cycle_power: null
total_energy: 246.57
last_update_datetime: 2024-11-16T23:07:47.495244+01:00
timezone: Europe/Berlin
temperature_unit: °C
is_device_active: true
ema_temp: 22.45
is_used_by_central_boiler: false
temperature_slope: -1.44
hvac_off_reason: null
is_over_climate: true
start_hvac_action_date: 2024-11-16T22:46:50.149637+01:00
underlying_entities: climate.thermostat_07_omi_esszimmer
is_regulated: true
regulated_target_temperature: 27.5
auto_regulation_mode: auto_regulation_strong
regulation_accumulated_error: 50
auto_fan_mode: auto_fan_none
current_auto_fan_mode: auto_fan_none
auto_activated_fan_mode: null
auto_deactivated_fan_mode: null
auto_regulation_use_device_temp: false
auto_start_stop_enable: false
auto_start_stop_level: auto_start_stop_none
auto_start_stop_dtmin: null
auto_start_stop_accumulated_error: 0
auto_start_stop_accumulated_error_threshold: null
follow_underlying_temp_change: false
friendly_name: versatile_thermostat_omi_esszimmer
supported_features: 401

and here is the graph:

[0verEngineer]

The radiators don't work over night so thats why the temp falls over night

[0verEngineer]

This is my expert mode config:

versatile_thermostat:
  auto_regulation_expert:
    kp: 0.4
    ki: 0.08
    k_ext: 0.0
    offset_max: 8
    stabilization_threshold: 0.1
    accumulated_error_threshold: 50

[jmcollin78]

Hello have you tried to remove all self-regulation? Your environment is very reactive and don't need self-regulation I guess.

[0verEngineer]

Ok i will try, will it still modify the target temp of the TRV? And what is the maximum the target temp will be modified?

[0verEngineer]

After the 15 minutes that i have self-regulation turned off the target temp of the TRV is still 23, exactly like the target temp of the VT, the local temp of the thermostat is 28 and the room temp of the external sensor is 22.3

So it should heat but the target temp of the TRV is not changed so that it heats.

[0verEngineer]

Ok should i use this option with self-regulation disabled?

[jmcollin78]

Yes

[0verEngineer]

It sets the target temp of the TRV to the internal temp of the TRV + 0.5, (if the room temp is 22.3 and the target temp 23) so this does not help me because of following reasons:

• the thermostat does not open at all when the target temp is only 0.5 higher then the room temp
• the thermostat does only open a little bit when the target temp is 1 higher then the room temp but i need it fully open to heat the room to the target

is there a way to tune this use internal device temperature setting so that it works for me?

[jmcollin78]

Have you some curves yet ?

[0verEngineer]

No they are not clean because i played with the settings, but my description should be clear enough (and more important then a graph).

This setting leads to the problem that the TRVs target temperature is 0.5 higher then the TRVs local temp, so it does not heat when it should heat.

Is there some way to tune this setting to have a higher target temp?

[jmcollin78]

Is there some way to tune this setting to have a higher target temp?

Are you French ? I think we have a big misunderstanding.

[jmcollin78]

ok that is clear now. Even with a strong regulation (regulation t° >>> target), the heater don't heat.
So what you need is an stronger regulation. My fear is that you risk to exceed the max allowed max_temp: 35 and then it will do nothing more. Let's try anyway.

So:

1. put the Regulation level to 'Expert'
2. change the expert parameters (in your configuration.yaml) like that:

    kp: float = 0.6
    ki: float = 0.1
    k_ext: float = 0.2
    offset_max: float = 10
    stabilization_threshold: float = 0.1
    accumulated_error_threshold: float = 80

3. un check the 'use internal device temperature'

When you change the configuration.yaml don't forget to restart.

This should be too much, but if it works we will lower the values after.

[0verEngineer]

It is a little bit better but still not good :/

1Day:

[jmcollin78]

offset_max: float = 15. try to adjust this value

[0verEngineer]

I tested it since you suggested it and it seems to work fine.