MSC1767: Extensible event types & fallback in Matrix (v2) #1767

ara4n · 2019-01-01T22:59:26Z

Obsoletes #1225

Implementations:

SDK: https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-events-sdk
- Current version of this MSC in the SDK: Rewrite to support content blocks & improved parser matrix-events-sdk#22
- Usage in Element Web (current version of this MSC): React, JS
- Usage in Element Web (v1 of this MSC): React, JS

Proven by other MSC implementations as well (may be an older version of this MSC, but still compatible on a technical level):

Polls: MSC3381: Polls (mk II) #3381
Voice Messages: MSC3245: Voice messages (using extensible events) #3245
Static Location Sharing: MSC3488: Extending events with location data #3488

Early conceptual work for extensible events usage:

matrix-art: https://github.com/MTRNord/matrix-art/blob/154c3af36b7db5502fec26ad380079c712de0756/helpers/event_types.ts

Articles:

https://www.artificialworlds.net/blog/2022/03/08/comparison-of-matrix-events-before-and-after-extensible-events/

FCP tickyboxes

proposals/1767-extensible-events.md

non-Jedi

In general, I like this much better than previously. Still strongly believe we should have server-side permission control on event types in non-e2ee rooms.

proposals/1767-extensible-events.md

ara4n · 2019-01-08T12:44:49Z

@non-Jedi many thanks for cogitating on this and reviewing :)

alphapapa · 2019-01-12T06:57:55Z

I feel like this is much clearer and simpler than the previous Google doc version. At least, as a client dev, this doesn't scare me much. :) Thanks.

proposals/1767-extensible-events.md

florianjacob · 2020-01-14T13:57:26Z

I wonder what should happen if a custom state event is extended, e.g. with a text fallback? It could make sense to store the temperature example as state event, keyed by sensors / sensor location, and then the home automation system can directly query the current state and does not have to bother with syncing & filtering until the correct one is found. Still, as custom state events are invisible for normal clients, extending them with a non-state-events to associate a fallback or other one-off / change-related information could help, though that should probably not end up in the actual room state…

I guess “the whole thing is now a state event with all content as value” would also work out, though I think the semantics thould be specified in the MSC.

Example:

{
    "type": "net.arasphere.temperature",
    "state_key": "living_room",
    "content": {
        # one-off non-state events associated with the state change,
         # but not needed in the actual room state?
        "m.text": "The living room temperature rose by 1.5C. It is now 37C",
        "m.html": "The living room temperature rose by <font color='#f00'1.5C</font>. It is now <font color='#f00'>37C</font>",
        "net.arasphere.temperature.diff": {
            "temperature_rise": 1.5
        }
        # actual state event?
        "net.arasphere.temperature": {
            "temperature": 37.0
        }
    }
}

mscbot · 2023-02-05T19:04:35Z

The final comment period, with a disposition to merge, as per the review above, is now complete.

mscbot · 2023-02-07T09:05:02Z

🔔 This is now entering its final comment period, as per the review above. 🔔

turt2live · 2023-02-07T16:30:33Z

(Someone ticked their box post-fcp, and the bot is confused: ignore it)

* first cut of MSC1767 for extensible events (replaces MSC1225) * tabs->spaces * fix markdown * fix markdown * GFM needs two spaces after ##? * delta from msc1225 * 2021 refresh * Refactor to be just text messaging + schema * Update MSC numbers * Touchups for FCP * *ahem* * Rewrite MSC to be understandable? * Update proposals/1767-extensible-events.md * Rewrite MSC, again * Clarify Andy's blog state * Relax m.markup's requirements * Misc clarifications * Revert "Relax m.markup's requirements" This reverts commit 5f15b9f. * Clarify push rules handling * Fix example * Update extensible events MSCs list * Update Andy's blog post reference * Update per review feedback * Move emotes, notices, and encryption out to dedicated MSCs * Clarify text throughout * Cover all the bases * Clarify mixins are exactly what they're assumed to be * Clarify fallback and number of datums per event * Fix description of plain text baseline * Clarify SCT's role in feature scope & cut "mixed" events (not mixins) * Fix description of mixins * Update proposals/1767-extensible-events.md Co-authored-by: David Baker <dbkr@users.noreply.github.com> * Expand on how unknown events are handled * Apply suggestions from code review Co-authored-by: Richard van der Hoff <1389908+richvdh@users.noreply.github.com> * Trim line length post-suggestions * Mention that extensible events might appear in other room versions early * Remove duplicated unknown parse order being an implementation detail * Note difference between optional content blocks and mixins * Apply suggestions from code review Co-authored-by: Richard van der Hoff <1389908+richvdh@users.noreply.github.com> * Update proposals/1767-extensible-events.md Co-authored-by: Alexey Rusakov <Kitsune-Ral@users.sf.net> * Clarify that clients are still strongly encouraged to validate HTML * Fix mention of mixing legacy event types * Update proposals/1767-extensible-events.md Co-authored-by: Andrew Morgan <1342360+anoadragon453@users.noreply.github.com> * Link to MSC3765 * Rename `m.markup` to `m.text` --------- Co-authored-by: Travis Ralston <travpc@gmail.com> Co-authored-by: Travis Ralston <travisr@matrix.org> Co-authored-by: David Baker <dbkr@users.noreply.github.com> Co-authored-by: Richard van der Hoff <1389908+richvdh@users.noreply.github.com> Co-authored-by: Alexey Rusakov <Kitsune-Ral@users.sf.net> Co-authored-by: Andrew Morgan <1342360+anoadragon453@users.noreply.github.com>

anoadragon453 · 2023-07-13T13:37:10Z

proposals/1767-extensible-events.md

+Another possible mixin would be `m.relates_to` (not described by this MSC). Currently,
+some features like the [key verification framework](https://spec.matrix.org/v1.5/client-server-api/#key-verification-framework)
+rely on relationships as part of making the feature work. The expectation is that
+these features would be adapted to meet the "purely additive" condition (assuming
+`m.relates_to` does actually end up being a mixin).


What about reactions? Surely those can't function without a relation being present either.

yea... reactions are awkward. The relationship should be additive (without aggregation key), but representing the aggregation key as a content block is difficult. The expectation is that a dedicated MSC would solve extev reactions.

julioromano · 2023-10-03T21:21:59Z

proposals/1767-extensible-events.md

+blocks and legacy fields, however that approach did not give sufficient reason for clients
+to fully adopt the extensible events changes.
+
+In room versions supporting extensible events, clients MUST only send extensible events.


What happens when an existing room with lots of "old" events is upgraded from a version not supporting extensible events to one that does?

Since events are immutable, does it mean that right after the upgrade almost all the events in the room will not be rendered by the clients anymore effectively making the room look empty?

Upgrading a room creates an entirely new room, "old" events will not be present in there.

noob alert!

Oh I wasn't aware of this, where does the spec mention it?

Here for example: https://spec.matrix.org/v1.8/client-server-api/#server-behaviour-16

Super thanks! I naively thought such an important thing would be mentioned in https://spec.matrix.org/v1.8/rooms/ . I still have to get used at how the spec chapters are organized.

Gnuxie · 2024-05-30T22:17:21Z

proposals/1767-extensible-events.md

+showing up in the plaintext or in tertiary formats on the events. Historically, room
+moderators have been pretty good about removing these malicious senders from their rooms
+when other users point out (quite quickly) that the event is appearing funky to them.
+


m.room.power_levels provide no way of restricting what media (via mixins) you can embed into events.

@Gnuxie could you write this up as a new matrix-spec issue to make sure it doesn't get lost?

matrix-org/matrix-spec#1932

KnowledgeGarden · 2024-08-16T21:35:49Z

Perhaps an extremely naive question, but here goes:
Suppose I want to do something in a Matrix client much like, say, Kialo, events for which are new text messages, but they are situated in the context of a parent node, which, itself, is situated in a Pro-Con debate graph; the view painted would be, first, the graph, then, when a node is selected, the graph shifts to place that node as the local "root" at the top.
My question, then, is this: can an extensible message type allow for a type which entails an entire JSON graph object with individual nodes?
Many thanks in advance - Jack

KnowledgeGarden · 2024-08-17T16:54:57Z

@Gnuxie Thanks for that link. I'm at a loss. It circularly points back to this issue.
m.room.power_levels is not mentioned in the latest api spec at
https://spec.matrix.org/latest/
but it is at
https://spec.matrix.org/legacy/client_server/r0.2.0.html
and
https://spec.matrix.org/unstable/rooms/v1/ and https://ems-docs.element.io/books/element-support/page/managing-a-room-advanced-room-management
There is a page on using that property at
https://snyk.io/advisor/npm-package/m/functions/m.room.power_levels

Power Levels is a State parameter. I am curious why it shows up here. I'm looking for an example of how powerlevels affects media type.
I am asking about Message Type flexibility.
I got a hint about it here
https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-events-sdk
which is buried in Element dependencies, but that repo hasn't been touched since last year and is still marked as "work in progress" and "use at your own risk".
I suspect that extensible message types is not particularly high a priority.

Gnuxie · 2024-08-17T19:14:02Z

@KnowledgeGarden sorry the link is unrelated, you just bumped the PR and reminded me to open an issue that i forgot about.

first cut of MSC1767 for extensible events (replaces MSC1225)

6121eee

ara4n changed the title ~~first cut of MSC1767 for extensible events (replaces MSC1225)~~ MSC1767: Extensible event types & fallback in Matrix (v2) Jan 1, 2019

ara4n added proposal A matrix spec change proposal proposal-pr T-Core labels Jan 1, 2019

ara4n mentioned this pull request Jan 1, 2019

Extensible event types & fallback in Matrix #1225

Closed

ara4n added 5 commits January 1, 2019 23:29

tabs->spaces

ba2c279

fix markdown

132526c

fix markdown

dcedbeb

GFM needs two spaces after ##?

02f257a

delta from msc1225

e8d8b94

richvdh self-requested a review January 2, 2019 07:25

turt2live added the proposal-in-review label Jan 2, 2019

turt2live reviewed Jan 2, 2019

View reviewed changes

proposals/1767-extensible-events.md Outdated Show resolved Hide resolved

proposals/1767-extensible-events.md Show resolved Hide resolved

proposals/1767-extensible-events.md Outdated Show resolved Hide resolved

anoadragon453 removed the T-Core label Jan 4, 2019

non-Jedi reviewed Jan 4, 2019

View reviewed changes

Half-Shot reviewed Jan 14, 2019

View reviewed changes

proposals/1767-extensible-events.md Outdated Show resolved Hide resolved

Half-Shot reviewed Jan 14, 2019

View reviewed changes

proposals/1767-extensible-events.md Outdated Show resolved Hide resolved

This was referenced Jan 16, 2019

Support unread message counts server-side matrix-org/synapse#2632

Open

WIPish: MSC1769: Extensible profiles as rooms #1769

Draft

richvdh removed their request for review February 27, 2019 11:10

ara4n mentioned this pull request Aug 12, 2019

MSC2184: Allow the use of the HTML <details> tag #2184

Merged

turt2live mentioned this pull request Jan 14, 2020

Allow clients not supporting a feature to display a human readable description of ignored events. #2410

Closed

n1trux mentioned this pull request Jan 20, 2020

MSC1840: Typed rooms #1840

Closed

twouters mentioned this pull request Jan 29, 2020

Messages with attached image only show image url Sorunome/matrix-slack-parser#2

Open

turt2live added kind:feature MSC for not-core and not-maintenance stuff and removed proposal-pr labels Apr 20, 2020

Rename m.markup to m.text

7161196

turt2live mentioned this pull request Jan 31, 2023

Rename m.markup and friends to m.text matrix-org/matrix-events-sdk#23

Open

mscbot added finished-final-comment-period and removed disposition-merge final-comment-period This MSC has entered a final comment period in interest to approval, postpone, or delete in 5 days. labels Feb 5, 2023

turt2live merged commit fe8be28 into old_master Feb 6, 2023

turt2live added spec-pr-missing Proposal has been implemented and is being used in the wild but hasn't yet been added to the spec blocked Something needs to be done before action can be taken on this PR/issue. and removed finished-final-comment-period labels Feb 6, 2023

mscbot added the final-comment-period This MSC has entered a final comment period in interest to approval, postpone, or delete in 5 days. label Feb 7, 2023

turt2live removed the final-comment-period This MSC has entered a final comment period in interest to approval, postpone, or delete in 5 days. label Feb 7, 2023

anoadragon453 mentioned this pull request Feb 10, 2023

FCP can be started again after one had successfully completed matrix-org/mscbot-python#32

Open

bleonard252 mentioned this pull request Feb 20, 2023

MSC3955: Extensible Events - Automated event mixin (notices) #3955

Open

anoadragon453 reviewed Jul 13, 2023

View reviewed changes

HarHarLinks mentioned this pull request Sep 24, 2023

MSC2997: Add t-shirt #2997

Open

julioromano reviewed Oct 3, 2023

View reviewed changes

Gnuxie reviewed May 30, 2024

View reviewed changes

Gnuxie mentioned this pull request Aug 16, 2024

m.room.power_levels provide no way of restricting the media (via mixins) you can embed into events. matrix-org/matrix-spec#1932

Open

This was referenced Oct 28, 2024

Bridge DMs/chat snarfed/bridgy-fed#1425

Open

Bridge groups snarfed/bridgy-fed#1435

Open

Provide feedback

Saved searches

Use saved searches to filter your results more quickly

MSC1767: Extensible event types & fallback in Matrix (v2) #1767

MSC1767: Extensible event types & fallback in Matrix (v2) #1767

ara4n commented Jan 1, 2019 •

edited by clokep

Loading

non-Jedi left a comment

ara4n commented Jan 8, 2019

alphapapa commented Jan 12, 2019

florianjacob commented Jan 14, 2020

mscbot commented Feb 5, 2023

mscbot commented Feb 7, 2023

turt2live commented Feb 7, 2023

anoadragon453 Jul 13, 2023 •

edited

Loading

turt2live Jul 13, 2023

julioromano Oct 3, 2023

networkException Oct 3, 2023

julioromano Oct 3, 2023

networkException Oct 3, 2023

julioromano Oct 4, 2023

Gnuxie May 30, 2024 •

edited

Loading

anoadragon453 Jun 25, 2024 •

edited

Loading

Gnuxie Aug 16, 2024

KnowledgeGarden commented Aug 16, 2024

KnowledgeGarden commented Aug 17, 2024

Gnuxie commented Aug 17, 2024 •

edited

Loading

MSC1767: Extensible event types & fallback in Matrix (v2) #1767

MSC1767: Extensible event types & fallback in Matrix (v2) #1767

Conversation

ara4n commented Jan 1, 2019 • edited by clokep Loading

non-Jedi left a comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

ara4n commented Jan 8, 2019

alphapapa commented Jan 12, 2019

florianjacob commented Jan 14, 2020

mscbot commented Feb 5, 2023

mscbot commented Feb 7, 2023

turt2live commented Feb 7, 2023

anoadragon453 Jul 13, 2023 • edited Loading

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

turt2live Jul 13, 2023

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

julioromano Oct 3, 2023

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

networkException Oct 3, 2023

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

julioromano Oct 3, 2023

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

networkException Oct 3, 2023

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

julioromano Oct 4, 2023

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Gnuxie May 30, 2024 • edited Loading

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

anoadragon453 Jun 25, 2024 • edited Loading

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Gnuxie Aug 16, 2024

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

KnowledgeGarden commented Aug 16, 2024

KnowledgeGarden commented Aug 17, 2024

Gnuxie commented Aug 17, 2024 • edited Loading

ara4n commented Jan 1, 2019 •

edited by clokep

Loading

anoadragon453 Jul 13, 2023 •

edited

Loading

Gnuxie May 30, 2024 •

edited

Loading

anoadragon453 Jun 25, 2024 •

edited

Loading

Gnuxie commented Aug 17, 2024 •

edited

Loading