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style-guide: add Chinese-specific rules #6285

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blueskyson
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@blueskyson blueskyson commented Jul 31, 2021

This is a translation of #5952.
I keep the original meaning with few revisions, so there might exists some sentences that are not fluent.
The words "Chinese-Latin mix" may cause some confusion. It means a sentence that contains both Chinese words and Latin words, but I didn't find a proper term to express such situation.

@marchersimon marchersimon added the documentation Issues/PRs modifying the documentation. label Aug 1, 2021
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marchersimon commented Aug 1, 2021

Thanks for the traslation @blueskyson. I assume this is a literaly translation of #5952. Personally I don't think this page really does what it should. Things like the layout or token syntax are already explained in our original style guide. I tought it would be the best if this page would just cover the Chinese-specific rules, like half-width vs full-witdh and all the other punctuations. Maybe it's not even worth creating a whole new page for that, but only a new section in our style guide.

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blueskyson commented Aug 1, 2021

Maybe it's not even worth creating a whole new page for that, but only a new section in our style guide.

Sounds like a plan @marchersimon . Shall I close this PR, and append a section with Chinese-specific rules to the style guide in another PR? By the way, I think #6200 needs to be solved before doing so.

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marchersimon commented Aug 1, 2021

I think #6200 could take a while, so I'll just take care of the marge conficts. And I think you could just rename this PR and do the changes here, but it doesn'r really matter. My concern is just what we should do with the page @noarchwastaken created in #5952. Do you think a Chinese translation of the Chinese part would be even neccessary?

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blueskyson commented Aug 3, 2021

Do you think a Chinese translation of the Chinese part would be even neccessary?

Yes, the Chinese-specific rules need to be mentioned in Chinese translation as well. Not every Chinese writer knows the normalized copywriting of Chinese-Latin mix.

@blueskyson blueskyson changed the title style-guide: add Chinese translation English version style-guide: add Chinese-specific rules Aug 3, 2021
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I'm asking if we should have a Chinese translation of the style guide at all? We don't have that for any other language.

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blueskyson commented Aug 3, 2021

Hum... I think Chinese translation is not necessary, but better than nothing. I approve to have Chinese translation personally. Maybe you could open an issue and vote for having style-guide in other languages or not, then decide whether to add according to voting result.

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It looks good to me. I think it is important to make these rules clear.

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I think the most important rule is kind of missing: When sholudn't you use full-width.

Basically, that would be something like

1. Use half-width punctuation after Latin characters.
   For example, use 等效于 `vim -R`. rather than 等效于 `vim -R`。

Comment on lines 106 to 108
3. Place one space between numbers and units **except** degrees and percentages.
For example, use `容量 50 MB` rather than `容量 50MB`.
For instances of degree and percentage, use `50°C` and `50%` rather than `50 °C` and `50 %`.
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I wouldn't say 50MB is really wrong. Also, how does that only apply to Chinese?

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It depends on an organization's decision. Internet giants like Google, Microsoft and Wikipedia apply this rule in Chinese regions. But Apple doesn't. I personally prefer to have that space.

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I'm still not sure if we should consider this Chinese-specific.

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Okay, I cancel this rule. If there would be a unit-related issue, this could be discuss again.

contributing-guides/style-guide.md Outdated Show resolved Hide resolved
Comment on lines 111 to 112
5. Use full-width punctuations except for long Latin clauses.
For example, use `嗨,你好。` rather than `嗨, 你好.`
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I think the most important rule is kind of missing: When sholudn't you use full-width.

Basically, that would be something like

1. Use half-width punctuation after Latin characters.
   For example, use 等效于 `vim -R`. rather than 等效于 `vim -R`。

I'll combine it with this rule.

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Use half-width punctuation after Latin characters. conflicts with this.

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But that's what I basically did in #5240. Did I misunderstand something? I'm confused.

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zjuyk commented Aug 5, 2021

Sorry, I am late.

Accorrding to government standard draft, Chinese technical documents mainly serve Chinese text, which should be based on Chinese punctuation and supplemented by English punctuation.

Therefore, Chinese sentences should end with Chinese punctuation at the end of the sentence. Only when English sentences are cited in Chinese sentences, we keep them.
For example

  • 他说的是“Jane, you can do it.”。
  • “I like you.(我喜欢你。)”与“I love you.(我爱你。)”的份量不一样。
  • 这个语境下不建议使用 at large。

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Then what about https://github.com/sparanoid/chinese-copywriting-guidelines/blob/master/README.en-US.md? I assume there is no correct form, just one for different purposes.

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zjuyk commented Aug 5, 2021

You mean this part?

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Yep, for example

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blueskyson commented Aug 5, 2021

@marchersimon

The suggestion of https://github.com/sparanoid/chinese-copywriting-guidelines/blob/master/README.en-US.md is the same as rule 5 use full-width punctuations except for long Latin clauses which is also the same as @zjuyk 's comment.

I found some examples of such situation in tldr page:

  • 支持大多数协议,包括 HTTP, FTP, 和 POP3. (in curl.md)
  • 在目标模拟器 / 设备实例上开启一个远程 shell: (in adb.md)

If the examples above follows the rule 5, they would be:

  • 支持大多数协议,包括 HTTP, FTP, 和 POP3。
  • 在目标模拟器 / 设备实例上开启一个远程 shell:

I think the rule use full-width punctuations except for long Latin clauses is a relative correct form for Chinese.

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zjuyk commented Aug 5, 2021

@marchersimon

I think there are no conflicts. One separated english sentence will keep halfwidth form, but actuallly we don't use a separated english sentence in chinese writing. Just cite them with "" or other punctuations.

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zjuyk commented Aug 5, 2021

Just like the examples in https://github.com/sparanoid/chinese-copywriting-guidelines

賈伯斯那句話是怎麼說的?「Stay hungry, stay foolish.」

推薦你閱讀《Hackers & Painters: Big Ideas from the Computer Age》,非常的有趣。

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Then what about the punctuation? Is using halfwith after Latin characters wrong? We all agreed on using that.

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zjuyk commented Aug 6, 2021

Accorrding to government standard draft, Chinese technical documents mainly serve Chinese text, which should be based on Chinese punctuation and supplemented by English punctuation.

Therefore, Chinese sentences should end with Chinese punctuation at the end of the sentence. Only when English sentences are cited in Chinese sentences, we keep them.

I respectfully disagree, but this discussion took too much time. I think we need to finish the style guide rules as soon as possible.

Maybe we should just make a draft style guide. It is easy to correct them by script in the future.

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Thanks @blueskyson,
maybe we'll refine this in the future, but I think we should get this merged.

@marchersimon marchersimon merged commit 0c4c907 into tldr-pages:main Aug 6, 2021
@blueskyson blueskyson deleted the style-guide-add-Chinese-translation-English-version branch August 7, 2021 05:37
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