IrcLog2008 09 08

18:23:54  *      garyo-home (n=[chatzill@209-6-158-38.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com](mailto:chatzill@209-6-158-38.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com)) has joined #scons 
18:58:23  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Hi, Gary.  Almost time for the bug party.  Anyone else here?  I don't see Steven. 
18:58:57  <garyo-home>   Hi Greg, I'm here. 
18:59:05  <garyo-home>   Don't know about steven yet. 
19:00:13  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Let me grab a soda; I'll be right back. 
19:00:19  <garyo-home>   ok 
19:03:51  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     OK, I'm back; where's Steven? 
19:04:32  <garyo-home>   no sign yet. 
19:04:49  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     I marked up all the issues that had obvious consensus; there should only be a few to discuss. 
19:05:15  <garyo-home>   I don't have that much time tonight; I should keep it to 1/2 hour.  Presentation tomorrow then off to Amsterdam Wednesday.  Thanks for the great spreadsheet work! 
19:05:54  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     The dam of the Amster river?  I'm jealous. 
19:06:12  <garyo-home>   Amstel, but who's counting.  Yes, a truly wonderful town. 
19:06:31  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Sigh.  I never could spell... 
19:07:05  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     We've been through there on vacations, but never time to visit. 
19:06:39  <garyo-home>   Wish I had more free time though, it's all business 90% of the time. 
19:07:18  <garyo-home>   I think I could move there. 
19:07:46  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Hmmm...  I'd go for the Bay of Islands first. 
19:07:51  <garyo-home>   Where's that? 
19:08:03  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     North New Zealand. 
19:08:30  <garyo-home>   Australia & NZ have long been on my list.  But it's quite the flight to get there, esp. with a family! 
19:08:49  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     True, 16 hours or more. 
19:08:39  <garyo-home>   What's Bay of Islands like? 
19:09:41  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Lovely.  It's a natural breakwater almost a hundred miles wide across the top of NZ.  Like a bay, wonderful sailing. 
19:10:28  <garyo-home>   Sounds great.  Is it tropical? 
19:10:59  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Semi-tropical; about the same as San Diego. 
19:11:13  <garyo-home>   That's pretty perfect. 
19:12:04  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Oh, yes.  And prices are unbelievable.  We looked at a small castle on ten acres for 200K NZD. 
19:12:17  <garyo-home>   Whoa!  Really?? 
19:12:49  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Yes, although food and health care are high. 
19:11:36  <garyo-home>   Well, it's 12 after.  Shall we look at a few of the non-consensus issues even just the 2 of us? 
19:12:05  <garyo-home>   Also can you remind me of the current 1.1 schedule? 
19:12:36  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Uh, that's something I wanted to discuss. 
19:13:04  <garyo-home>   ok, shoot.  It'll go in the IRC logs anyway. 
19:13:40  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     OK, here's the consideration: December is a bad time to commit to a release.  Between Thanksgiving, holiday get-togethers, Christmas shopping, Christmas, Boxing day, New Year's Eve, and New Year's Day, there are just too many distractions. 
19:13:40  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     If we keep the current schedule for 1.1 and try to maintain it for 1.2, we're going to end up with 1.3 the end of December.  Not good. 
19:13:40  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     So if we start the clock for 1.1 as of Sunday's 1.0.1 release, then we can have a checkpoint this weekend (13 September), a release candidate on the weekend of 27 September, and a release the weekend of 4 October.  That's not too bad. 
19:13:40  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     For 1.2, we plan checkpoints for the weekend of 18 October and 1 November, a release candidate the weekend of 15 November, and a release the weekend of 23 November, well before Thanksgiving on 27 October. 
19:13:40  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Then for 1.3, we plan bi-weekly checkpoints toward a (to be determined) release date in January. 
19:13:40  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     At that point, we can decide whether to have a 1.4 or work toward 2.0.  (I'd go for a 2.0 in March, with several incremental checkpoints along the way.) 
19:13:40  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     How's that sound? 
19:13:50  <garyo-home>   :-) 
19:15:15  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Comments? 
19:15:24  <garyo-home>   So far what I've seen for 1.1 looks like it could be done by 27 sept.  I'll be gone from Wednesday to next Wednesday though.  Still, I have only 4 tickets for 1.1. 
19:15:54  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     I'm trying to stretch 1.1 slightly so 1.3 won't end up in December. 
19:15:55  <garyo-home>   Basically you're proposing to stretch it a little, which suits me fine. 
19:16:02  *      sgk (n=[stevenkn@c-67-169-176-171.hsd1.ca.comcast.net](mailto:stevenkn@c-67-169-176-171.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)) has joined #scons 
19:16:08  <garyo-home>   Aha, here he is. 
19:16:09  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Hello, Steven. 
19:16:13  <sgk>  hey there 
19:16:19  <sgk>  stuck on the highway 
19:16:38  <garyo-home>   No problem.  I have to go at 10:30 (OK, stretch to 10:40). 
19:16:51  <sgk>  i can't stay much either 
19:16:48  <garyo-home>   Busy rest of week. 
19:16:53  <sgk>  i hear you 
19:17:02  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     We're discussing schedule... 
19:17:07  <garyo-home>   Greg, want to re-dump your last thing? 
19:17:14  <sgk>  release sched?  or bug party sched? 
19:17:19  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     release 
19:17:22  <garyo-home>   1.1 - 1.4. 
19:17:33  <sgk>  :-) 
19:17:40  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Shall I requote? 
19:17:44  <sgk>  did you see what i slapped up in roadmap.html? 
19:17:47  <garyo-home>   please. 
19:17:49  <sgk>  please do 
19:17:51  <sgk>  requote 
19:18:05  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Ur, no, not yet.  Here's what I said before: 
19:18:08  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Here's the consideration: December is a bad time to commit to a release.  Between Thanksgiving, holiday get-togethers, Christmas shopping, Christmas, Boxing day, New Year's Eve, and New Year's Day, there are just too many distractions. 
19:18:08  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     If we keep the current schedule for 1.1 and try to maintain it for 1.2, we're going to end up with 1.3 the end of December.  Not good. 
19:18:08  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     So if we start the clock for 1.1 as of Sunday's 1.0.1 release, then we can have a checkpoint this weekend (13 September), a release candidate on the weekend of 27 September, and a release the weekend of 4 October.  That's not too bad. 
19:18:08  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     For 1.2, we plan checkpoints for the weekend of 18 October and 1 November, a release candidate the weekend of 15 November, and a release the weekend of 23 November, well before Thanksgiving on 27 October. 
19:18:08  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Then for 1.3, we plan bi-weekly checkpoints toward a (to be determined) release date in January. 
19:18:08  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     At that point, we can decide whether to have a 1.4 or work toward 2.0.  (I'd go for a 2.0 in March, with several incremental checkpoints along the way.) 
19:18:08  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     How's that sound? 
19:19:00  <garyo-home>   Looking at roadmap.html, you guys are remarkably close. 
19:19:25  <sgk>  well, off by .2   :-) 
19:19:45  <sgk>  overall timing between releases makes sense to me 
19:19:57  <sgk>  so working that towards 1.2, sure 
19:20:06  <garyo-home>   1.1 end sept/early oct, 1.2 24 nov, sounds good to me. 
19:20:45  <sgk>  and agree with general time frames 
19:20:45  <garyo-home>   can we look at some of the issues? 
19:21:33  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     yes, I'm digesting Steven's roadmap 
19:21:39  <sgk>  not sure if i can -- really sorry 
19:22:09  <sgk>  i'm okay with going with your consensus guys' consensus based on spreadsheet 
19:22:22  <sgk>  and if there's something that really needs my input, take it off-line 
19:22:36  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     only a few other issues to discuss.. 
19:22:48  <sgk>  can we tee them up really quickly? 
19:23:22  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Check the spreadsheets; I marked them. 
19:23:14  <garyo-home>   new ones: 2195 (ok for 1.x, not 1.1)? 
19:23:40  <garyo-home>   [all other new ones are already consensus, 2195's the only one w/ any question.) 
19:24:04  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     2191 needs an owner 
19:24:33  <garyo-home>   I'll do it.  I have VMs for it and can snapshot them. 
19:24:34  <sgk>  2195:  my gut says yes 1.1 (since it's for new features) 
19:24:55  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     OK, I'll push Rob about it. 
19:25:01  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     2191 needs an owner 
19:25:09  <garyo-home>   2195: if it slips, we don't hold 1.1 for it. 
19:25:22  <garyo-home>   ok? 
19:25:25  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     yes 
19:25:36  <sgk>  2191:  agree 
19:25:44  <sgk>  2195: agree i mean 
19:25:52  <sgk>  2191:  any chance david's stuff covers it? 
19:26:07  <sgk>  too big for me to commit in 1.1 
19:26:28  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     I'll ask, see what he thinks. 
19:26:40  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     If David doesn't want it, what then? 
19:26:53  <garyo-home>   2191, python64 on win64, right?  I can look at it. 
19:27:05  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     OK, will you have time? 
19:27:34  <garyo-home>   Can't promise of course.  But it looks simple.  I know an awful lot about win64 registry issues. :-/ 
19:27:58  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     OK, garyo owner.  Next spreadsheet? 
19:28:12  <garyo-home>   2005 is first I think. 
19:28:37  <garyo-home>   If Steven wants it, OK. 
19:28:45  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     er, 1945 is first, I think. 
19:29:09  <garyo-home>   OK, I didn't count 1945 cause it seemed like we all say "see if Ludwig will do it" and if not, defer. 
19:29:10  <sgk>  which spreadsheet? 
19:29:33  <garyo-home>   [BugParty](BugParty) page: Decide which issues from 1.x should be promoted into 1.1  
19:29:34  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     "Possible issues for 1.1" 
19:29:45  <sgk>  thnx 
19:29:57  <garyo-home>   [http://scons.tigris.org/issues/buglist.cgi?resort=1&component=scons&issue_status=UNCONFIRMED&issue_status=NEW&issue_status=STARTED&issue_status=REOPENED&order=issues.target_milestone%2C%20issues.priority%2C%20issues.votes%20desc%2C%20issues.creation_ts&target_milestone=1.x](http://scons.tigris.org/issues/buglist.cgi?resort=1&component=scons&issue_status=UNCONFIRMED&issue_status=NEW&issue_status=STARTED&issue_status=REOPENED&order=issues.target_milestone%2C%20issues.priority%2C%20issues.votes%20desc%2C%20issues.creation_ts&target_milestone=1.x) 
19:30:21  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     1945, Done. 
19:31:02  <sgk>  2005: me done 
19:31:09  <garyo-home>   ok. 
19:31:32  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     2005 done 
19:31:41  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     2044 
19:31:53  <sgk>  can we advertise on the ML ? 
19:32:06  <sgk>  seems like it would be important enough that someone might actually volunteer... 
19:31:55  <garyo-home>   2044: not a real UNC naming fix, just fix the looping. 
19:32:28  <garyo-home>   Isn't there a real UNC fix queued up too? 
19:32:44  <garyo-home>   Yes, 1420. 
19:33:05  *      bdbaddog (n=[bdeegan@adsl-71-131-3-114.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net](mailto:bdeegan@adsl-71-131-3-114.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)) has joined #scons 
19:33:11  <garyo-home>   Hi, Bill. 
19:33:20  <bdbaddog>     Good evening all. 
19:33:21  <sgk>  anyone assigned to 1420 ? 
19:33:22  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Maybe Benoit can look at this one, too. 
19:33:26  <garyo-home>   But I think even with 1420, we may still need the fix in 2044. 
19:33:26  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Hi, Bill 
19:34:01  <garyo-home>   otoh, 2044 can go in any time. 
19:34:33  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     I'll ask Benoit.  Move on? 
19:34:42  <sgk>  done 
19:34:43  <garyo-home>   Hi Bill, we're looking at the 1.x -> 1.1 issues. 
19:34:54  <garyo-home>   1402 i think? 
19:35:02  <garyo-home>   = vs_revamp 
19:35:18  <sgk>  wow, greg, thanks for pre-consensus'ing these 
19:35:20  <sgk>  this is great 
19:35:32  <garyo-home>   yes, +1 greg! 
19:35:47  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Aw, shucks... 
19:36:09  <garyo-home>   anyway, I think we agree on 1402 too.  If vs_revamp fixes it then great, if not, defer. 
19:36:21  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     OK, who? 
19:36:32  <sgk>  1402:  david 
19:36:34  <garyo-home>   vs_revamp is david c, cc me. 
19:36:41  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     OK, done 
19:36:53  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     1772 
19:37:07  <garyo-home>   I think that's a "no". 
19:37:31  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     agreed, but should I send it to Ludwig with a query? 
19:37:44  <sgk>  sure 
19:37:51  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     done 
19:38:00  <garyo-home>   2048 is next 
19:38:15  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     2^11 is next 
19:38:21  <garyo-home>   :-) 
19:38:31  <sgk>  2041:  1.1, sure, but who ? 
19:38:50  <garyo-home>   already has patch & testcase, it'll take me 10 min. 
19:39:04  <sgk>  garyo++ 
19:39:08  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     done 
19:39:21  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     but run regression tests, first. 
19:39:33  <garyo-home>   of course. 
19:39:45  <garyo-home>   But that's bg time, not my actual time. 
19:39:51  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     true 
19:39:58  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     That appears to be it. 
19:40:04  <garyo-home>   well done all! 
19:40:15  <sgk>  agreed, many thanks 
19:40:25  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     I was hoping to get to some backlog today, but maybe next time. 
19:40:22  <garyo-home>   I do need to go now.  I won't be around next week, I'll be in Amsterdam til next Wednesday. 
19:40:37  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Skip next week? 
19:40:56  <sgk>  maybe, let's sync up in the ML about schedule 
19:41:08  <sgk>  i may need to find a different night  
19:41:10  <sgk>  or time 
19:41:11  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Or you could take along a laptop; it'll be 2am in Amsterdam... 
19:41:14  <bdbaddog>     Gnight all. I gotta run. 
19:41:17  *      bdbaddog has quit ("Leaving.") 
19:41:22  <sgk>  me too -- later 
19:41:23  <garyo-home>   I'll be connected there anyway. 
19:41:25  <sgk>  thank again 
19:41:28  *      sgk has quit ("Leaving") 
19:41:32  <garyo-home>   'night. 
19:41:37  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     G'night. 
19:41:40  *      garyo-home has quit ("[ChatZilla](ChatZilla) 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]")